A buddy sent me this article a few days ago: https://ghuntley.com/fracture/ If I hadn't read it, I might think Gitlab incorporating vscode was a good thing.
Seriously no time to read this. What's the TL;DR?
There is a short summary at the end.
Web IDE Beta
231–240 of 258 posts
Re: Web IDE Beta
#232> with an implementation inspired by Visual Studio Code. Is this an indication of Gitlabs new "corporate" culture? The website already seems less "OSS" than it did, but to say "inspired by" is a hairline away from bullshit. It's not inspired by VSCode, it _is_ VSCode.
GitLab team member here. Thanks for the feedback. I created a merge request to update our documentation based on your comment and linked to the comment in the MR description: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/-/merge_requests/107599
That's great to hear. Thanks for the quick turn around.
I appreciate that it's a single word change, less than a whole word even; given the PR/MR but it's important, in my opinion (as a Gitlab fan) to not appear to be trying to hide the foundation this updated feature is (now) built on.
Re: Web IDE Beta
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're just being pedantic now. VSCodium exists because VSCode is FOSS. Your complaint is with the binary that Microsoft ships, not with the codebase.
Sounds to me like they've got sufficient fanboy mindshare to move fully into "extinguish" soon!
Except Atom that is already dead, which IDE / editor are they going to extinguish?
Re: Web IDE Beta
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
The way that VS Code is spreading, and the stranglehold Microsoft has on development and direction of the product, give me very strong IE4/5/6 vibes. I really hope some of the open source alternatives that aren't corporation-controlled gain traction over the next year.
There is a difference, and that is that you can use something like Jetbrains and your coworker can use VSCode with issues, but if 99% of people use a browser that renders HTML/CSS differently (and I will argue better than the competition at the time) then you are forced to acquiesce to it.
What’s happening is teams will prioritize and prefer only VSCode. So while technically you can, may be, get Jetbrains to work, it’ll be subpar. After a while you just give up and switch to what everyone in the team uses. It’s already happening to me - my team uses VSCode and it comes with a nice devcontainer that’s fully configured. With Jetbrains I’m doing it all myself.
Re: Web IDE Beta
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aside from the newly introduced Fleet the other commenter pointed out, Jetbrains' IDEA Ultimate can include all the functionality of all the individual niche products (via plugins), so you could just use a single Jetbrains IDE for most any language/flow you choose. I personally kind of like to keep them separate so I can keep different envs configured the way I most often use them, but you could just use the single I…
Can confirm... IDEA Ultimate (and Community to a lesser extent) lets me write code in Java, Groovy, Kotlin (and with slightly fewer features, but still really good support), Go, Rust, JavaScript, TypeScript, and of course, HTML/CSS... probably more but those are what I normally use. VS Code is getting support for all the newer languages though... similar to how it used to be before with Eclipse (for those who remembe…
I wonder how do you manage so my languages without getting confused?
Re: Web IDE Beta
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought it was weird when Jetbrains started to split up their product into language-specific products, but given how many people say they use WebStorm or an other niche product, and who say they use multiple, I can't blame Jetbrains - I think that in hindsight it was a great business move. An expensive "I can do everything" product has a higher barrier to entry than a specialized product. Personally I've been using…
> I thought it was weird when Jetbrains started to split up their product into language-specific products They're for different audiences; the hurdle of trying to explain to a JS dev "yeah, I know when it starts up it asks for a Maven/Gradle/JVM, but just ignore that and open a directory after you install the following 8 plugins" is bad DX. As others have said, the standalone products are not feature parity with the…
> the standalone products are not feature parity with the IJ plugins.
Probably to sell their more expensive "all access pass" instead of just one IDE that does everything.
Re: Web IDE Beta
#237I wish Gitlab would just fix up their existing product instead of increasing the surface area. Every month they put out a security release that often contains a couple of "high severity" bugs and every couple of months there's a "critical" one. And they're not rocket science either, simple auth check bypasses and so on. Clearly something's not going right in the culture if you have multiple critical security bugs eve…
I got burned so many times by GitLab I can't in good conscience use them anymore. I always try to use an OSS product when I can, but I literally lost a client a few years back because we couldn't do a deploy because GL was down. For now I use GH for critical projects and a self hosted Gitea instance when it's not super critical.
On the flip side, we switched to our own hosted-on-k8s GitLab summer 2019 and it's been rock solid since. I patch it monthly (via Helm) and it's painless.
About 100 users and it handles all of our CI, which runs on a separate GKE node pool.
Re: Web IDE Beta
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is quite easy to see that the "embrace" is to release a core into the open source world. They embraced the idea of open source and released something, they extended the user base into the world of the non-free option. The thinking is if they can get a critical mass of folks onto the option that is non-free, they will extinguish the free option by no longer supporting it. And this is not much different from the thi…
> The thinking is if they can get a critical mass of folks onto the option that is non-free, they will extinguish the free option by no longer supporting it. I assume you mean "non-free" as in speech, not beer, since VSCode is free. Hasn't that "critical mass" been the case since day one? I can't imagine that VSCodium built binaries have ever had more than a tiny fraction of the user-base of VSCode? Thus I don't see…
Yes, non-free as in speech. Though, if they were to flip it from the "beer" sense of the term, I'm not entirely clear that would make much difference. As long as they have tripped the critical mass of the userbase.
And it is very similar to the freemium models used by many companies. Apologies if I made that sound like a disagreement. I think the point was more that Microsoft doing it is part of their old game plan. Random companies acting in other means is a bit of a non-sequitur. That said, I think it is common idea that many other companies have tried to extinguish competition in their "free" market? That is, many companies do what they can to make it easy for hobbyists and such to use things for free, but as soon as you are in a company, they try to milk the company for fees.
Re: Web IDE Beta
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They seem to understand "IDE-in-browser" undermines their fundamental market position How so? They've recently rolled out the "gateway" product, which is basically a remote IDE. Sure, you still connect to that with a local one, but the local one doesn't do that much. Why not move it to a browser? The remote one does all the things people love about their IDEs. And if people don't care, they're probably not using th…
There's actually a few products. Gateway is a remote IDE in the browser, it's a rewrite of their front-end (Spring I think?) to marshal the UI over HTTP. Remote is similar to VSCode. The IDE is split into a front-end and a backend: the UI stuff happens locally, and does RPC to the backend for file access, terminal, language server, what-not.
Gateway is a desktop app. https://www.jetbrains.com/remote-development/gateway/
Re: Web IDE Beta
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
With language servers, I think the big IDEs will be less relevant. It'll be easier for anyone to write a text editor with language server integration and make it with just the way they like.
You're forgetting the actual heavy lifting that proper IDEs do, and that VS Code leaves to language implementors. Unless you know how to do proper code analysis, you won't be able to make it "just the way you like". Even writing a proper IDE-aware compiler is a quite a daunting task.
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