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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

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Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#231

Post by nobody9999 »

midoridensha wrote: post #92
jrockway wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's because it's old. From the Wikipedia article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Supreme_Court ): > The New York Supreme Court is the oldest Supreme Court with general original jurisdiction. It was established as the Supreme Court of Judicature by the Province of New York on May 6, 1691. That court was continued by the State of New York after independence was declared in 1776. It became the New York…

There's nothing stopping the state from renaming the courts now to conform with established convention in the rest of the nation, in order to reduce confusion.

>There's nothing stopping the state from renaming the courts now to conform with established convention in the rest of the nation, in order to reduce confusion.

I imagine that the entire New York Legislature are hanging their heads in shame for confusing a few dozen folks on HN who don't even live in the state.

I further imagine that it will immediately become important for the governor to call an emergency session of the Legislature (which normally meets from January to June) to change the name of the court after they read your comment.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#232

Post by tptacek »

midislack wrote: post #172
tptacek wrote: post #20

This is a confusing headline. The judgement here is in NY state court, and pertains to employees of and in the City of New York, which enacted a vaccine requirement for employees of the city and later private employers in the city. Months later, Eric Adams was elected mayor of NYC, and he issued an executive order exempting athletes, performers, and artists from the mandate. Petitioners sued, saying that the mandate…

Can you explain what's confusing about it? Seems perfectly crystal clear to me.

This whole thread sprawled! I just meant that it wasn't clear who the ruling applied to, because New York City is easy to confuse with New York State.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#233

Post by encryptluks2 »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #148
encryptluks2 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one thought the party that has been adopted by people that have been most lied to by the government and treated unfairly and who faced discrimination and prejudice would be least trusting, but instead they were told to trust it more and they just gobbled it up and fell in line.

Likewise, I think about Occupy Wallstreet and think how clever was Wallstreet to now have those same people jumping up and down for them with Big Pharma, the six media companies, and defending everything Nancy Pelosi does.

I guess in a way it goes to show that movements like Occupy Wallstreets only represented a small percentage of progressives that were more likely to vote for Bernie, and some went the direction the DNC told people to when it essentially colluded to steal the nomination and others left and went true independent.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#234

Post by Maursault »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #223
Maursault wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Nice rant, but as per the ruling [1], I believe it is now scientific and popular concensus that the vaccine barely moves the needle on transmission if at all. At that point, any logic behind mandates vaccinations collapses. [1] “ Being vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting Covid-19”

[citation needed]

According to the CDC, HHS, Johns-Hopkins and every single medical school, hospital and scientific organization in the US, as well as 224M vaccinated US citizens, the COVID vaccines are effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization, and death.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#235

Post by Aunche »

db48x wrote: post #228
Aunche wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Did you read the ruling? That's a lot of ask of an internet commenter. In all seriousness, I did see that part while skimming through it, but I don't find it very convincing in regards to public employees. The order came from the Mayor, not the health commissioner. Requiring city employees be vaccinated is an administrative decision. It's within the best interests of the city that city employees not get sick, that t…

> It's within the best interests of the city that… Yes, but that’s not the sole requirement. In addition to serving a legitimate government purpose, a government order must also avoid being arbitrary or capricious. Every order has to meet both requirements, and this one only meets one of them. From the ruling: “This Court finds that based on the analysis above, the Commissioner’s Order of October 20, 2021, violated t…

>a government order must also avoid being arbitrary or capricious

There were two separate orders. The first was for public employees, and the second was for private employees. I agree that the second was capricious, but the first was consistent. The city is allowed to fire city employees. Maybe something about it is unconstitutional, but the ruling completely handwaves this, as well as the justification for backpay.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#236

Post by colechristensen »

Spooky23 wrote: post #114
spfzero wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not merely arbitrary. From the decision: "This Court aggress that the Commissioner cannot enact a term of employment on City employees and has exceeded his scope of authority..."

That definitely plays into the sabotage thread. Any competent corp counsel would have been able to navigate around this issue.

Regardless of if they were the right thing to do, many of the various covid mandates being enacted through whatever form of decree really didn’t seem like they fit inside the authority of the government executives trying to enact them. Many were also made to be unenforceable so they’d never be tested in court while still influencing people.

The rule of law is important and limiting the power of “rulers” to make large sweeping regulations by themselves is important. Agreeing with what they’re trying to do doesn’t make it right. People have been cheering for authoritarianism more and more and it’s disturbing.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#237

Post by throwawaylinux »

colinmhayes wrote: post #166
throwawaylinux wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just said it was for revenue to the city though. I'm not really convinced about this new explanation either. I've seen little to no evidence that upsetting significant numbers of people factored into any other decisions around covid response, including the significant number who were upset by the creation of these double standards. I'm going to have to stick with pure and simple corruption as the simplest and mos…

I meant revenue that went to businesses/people in the city, like the general ecosystem not just the government. And a large part of the backlash was from people whose jobs were eliminated until full scale entertainment came back. It was a big deal to tons of people.

And I meant it's just simple corruption because there is little to no evidence that can be produced which supports the fringe theory that politicians care about the city's finances or what is and is not a big deal to the common people.

They care about their finances and those of their friends and lobbyists and donors, so corruption is the simplest and most obvious explanation.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#238

Post by Rebelgecko »

rainbowzootsuit wrote: post #138
Rebelgecko wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno how it is in NY, but in my city, the fire department spends way more time on paramedic duties than on actually fighting fires (around 40 EMS calls for every fire call). IMO if you're getting a ride to the hospital from someone it matters if they have COVID. And even though the vaccines don't guarantee that you won't get infected, the government does have an interest in preventing severe infections. COVID was th…

I am perfectly happy to have a COVID spewing firefighter get me to the hospital after a car accident and let me take my chances there, than to be left without a first responder. 100% of the time.

I would rather have a live and vaccinated firefighter take me to the hospital than have to wait at home because an unvaccinated firefighter died of COVID or is hooked up to a vent

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#239

Post by Rebelgecko »

chrisseaton wrote: post #119
Rebelgecko wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno how it is in NY, but in my city, the fire department spends way more time on paramedic duties than on actually fighting fires (around 40 EMS calls for every fire call). IMO if you're getting a ride to the hospital from someone it matters if they have COVID. And even though the vaccines don't guarantee that you won't get infected, the government does have an interest in preventing severe infections. COVID was th…

> the fire department spends way more time on paramedic duties than on actually fighting fires Why does the fire department do medical stuff in the US? Why isn’t it medical people providing paramedics? Seems like something that should be left to professionals?

My county is kind of weird, but only firefighters are allowed to be paramedics here. They are considered professionals, they have to take the same classes and get the same certs as paramedics in other areas

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#240

Post by StanislavPetrov »

jakogut wrote: post #10

Something I've been wondering in recent cases where courts are overturning recent government action, whether unconstitutional bills passed into law, or unconstitutional executive actions that overstep authority, is where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place? The state of New York famously responded to the outcome of NYSRPA v. Bruen, which overturned the defacto ban on concealed carry, by decl…

>Something I've been wondering in recent cases where courts are overturning recent government action, whether unconstitutional bills passed into law, or unconstitutional executive actions that overstep authority, is where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place?

Unfortunately the penalty falls only on the taxpayer, and not at all on the lawmakers who pass unconstitutional laws or declare executive actions that they do not have the legal authority to declare as law. Indeed, lawmakers routinely flaunt their ability to enact laws that they know are unconstitutional across the political spectrum, to abortion laws (pre Dobbs) in "red states" to gun laws in "blue states". The recent NY legislation in the wake of the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen decision is the perfect example. It contained all sorts of blatantly unconstitutional measures, like requiring those applying for gun permits to turn over all their social media accounts for scrutiny. But since there is no potential penalty suffered by lawmakers who willfully and knowingly violate the Constitution, this sort of unlawful, blatant political pandering is going to continue.

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