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NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

iapps.courts.state.ny.us

161–170 of 443 posts

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#161

They took people's livelyhoods away, and now they gotta pay.

They were fired for cause, namely, insubordination. The resistance to vaccination is entirely political. The mandate was not, but instead in the interests of public safety and health. Easing the mandate for special cases was a terrible decision. The decision to ease the mandate should be reversed, not the mandate itself. So quickly they've forgotten the piles of bodies of COVID victims in NYC.

> They were fired for cause, namely, insubordination

The idea that you can order someone to perform a medical procedure because they work for you is disguisting.

Where does this end?

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do courts declare certain executive orders unconstitutional, and yet the perpetrators, who took an oath to uphold and defend said rights and values, face no consequences? Isn't this like saying developers should suffer consequences if they allow bugs to get into their code? Because we are perpetrators of flawed code, like law makers are perpetrators of flawed laws? > Regardless of one's opinion of said rights,…

because its not always accidental. look at abortion laws before there was reason to challenge them, or many blue state gun laws. they're giant "fuck you"s to getting told to stop doing smth stupid. like NY gets its gun law overturned so its like "fuck you we're gonna make super invasive requirements for testing (which you cant even do in state) and turning over social media handles (hella chilling effect)." or almost…

That's actually an old and effective political strategy. Perhaps distasteful, but part of the game in the same sense that icing the kicker in football is part of the game (as consequence of the rules of time-outs).

I've even seen it used to good effect to strong-arm otherwise unreachable organizations when they choose to be anti-social. During the housing crash, one of the major non-profit universities a city panicked about its investments going shaky and abruptly decided to stop paying into some multi-decades-long standing donations that back-stopped some city services. The non-profit was paying into that donation pool because state law that had made sense in the 1900s and a lot less sense in 2000 made those non-profits non-taxable (but they had eaten up a significant percent of available real estate in the city center, none of which could generate tax revenue to pay for city services).

The city responded by preparing an ordnance that would tax out-of-town students directly.

The uni responded that this would be obviously illegal on its face as per state law.

The city responded that they believed the uni was presenting a reasonable legal theory that they were happy to debate back-and-forth in county, circuit, state, and appeals court for the next five years.

The university returned to the negotiating table and hammered out a new plan to pay a percentage of their former amount into the donation pool, preventing what would have otherwise been a heavy disruption in city services at a time when everyone was hurting from the housing crash.

Messy, but this kind of creation of leverage is what makes political systems operate at all at multiple scales of governance.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't NYC's financials a basket case though? Surely its politicians don't care much about bringing revenue to the city, rather bringing profit to their friends and families and lobbyists. That is what makes more sense here.

My understanding is that a significant number of Yankees were unvaccinated and would not have been able to play home games. There are a significant number of New Yorkers that would’ve been very upset had that come to pass, so politicians acted according to public will and gave them an exception. Does that mean this wasn’t also corruption? No, but it is a reasonable thing to do even without corruption imo.

You just said it was for revenue to the city though.

I'm not really convinced about this new explanation either. I've seen little to no evidence that upsetting significant numbers of people factored into any other decisions around covid response, including the significant number who were upset by the creation of these double standards.

I'm going to have to stick with pure and simple corruption as the simplest and most likely explanation, unless there is some extraordinary evidence supporting some other less likely one.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#164
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"At will" doesn't mean you can fire for any reason. Even if you don't state the reason (which they did), it would be illegal to fire all black people from a company, because it's trivial to prove for a large enough company. "at will" doesn't supercede civil rights act and other laws.

This is bad faith interpretation of my comment. We all know what the Civil Rights Act is. My question is what rule exactly is NYC breaking?

thats exactly what the court ruling explains

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt it. The court also said the following (court towards the end indicates that the mandate didn’t make sense even when the order was issued): > “”Being vaccinated does not prevent an individual from contracting or transmitting Covid-19. As of the day of this Decision, CDC guidelines regarding quarantine and isolation are the same for vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. The Petitioners should not have been ter…

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm getting a bit tired of people on HN questioning the motives of other commenters. You don't have a mind reading machine, you are not a telepath or a wizard. If you think they are wrong then argue it, they could be mistaken, entirely right, entirely wrong, partly right/wrong… you could be wrong. There are so many possibilities but none of them include you being able to divine their intentions.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that a significant number of Yankees were unvaccinated and would not have been able to play home games. There are a significant number of New Yorkers that would’ve been very upset had that come to pass, so politicians acted according to public will and gave them an exception. Does that mean this wasn’t also corruption? No, but it is a reasonable thing to do even without corruption imo.

You just said it was for revenue to the city though. I'm not really convinced about this new explanation either. I've seen little to no evidence that upsetting significant numbers of people factored into any other decisions around covid response, including the significant number who were upset by the creation of these double standards. I'm going to have to stick with pure and simple corruption as the simplest and mos…

I meant revenue that went to businesses/people in the city, like the general ecosystem not just the government. And a large part of the backlash was from people whose jobs were eliminated until full scale entertainment came back. It was a big deal to tons of people.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#167
post #20

This is a confusing headline. The judgement here is in NY state court, and pertains to employees of and in the City of New York, which enacted a vaccine requirement for employees of the city and later private employers in the city. Months later, Eric Adams was elected mayor of NYC, and he issued an executive order exempting athletes, performers, and artists from the mandate. Petitioners sued, saying that the mandate…

No post body was provided.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#168
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were fired for cause, namely, insubordination. The resistance to vaccination is entirely political. The mandate was not, but instead in the interests of public safety and health. Easing the mandate for special cases was a terrible decision. The decision to ease the mandate should be reversed, not the mandate itself. So quickly they've forgotten the piles of bodies of COVID victims in NYC.

A growing number of doctors have threatened to withhold treatment from the unvaccinated, sparking backlash from doctors and bioethicists who say such sentiments violate the Hippocratic Oath. Those critics are even more troubled by the silence from professional organizations tasked with upholding medical ethics. The mandate should have never existed.

No post body was provided.

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm getting a bit tired of people on HN questioning the motives of other commenters. You don't have a mind reading machine, you are not a telepath or a wizard. If you think they are wrong then argue it, they could be mistaken, entirely right, entirely wrong, partly right/wrong… you could be wrong. There are so many possibilities but none of them include you being able to divine their intentions.

[deleted]

Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were fired for cause, namely, insubordination. The resistance to vaccination is entirely political. The mandate was not, but instead in the interests of public safety and health. Easing the mandate for special cases was a terrible decision. The decision to ease the mandate should be reversed, not the mandate itself. So quickly they've forgotten the piles of bodies of COVID victims in NYC.

> They were fired for cause, namely, insubordination The idea that you can order someone to perform a medical procedure because they work for you is disguisting. Where does this end?

Not at all. We require school children to undergo medical procedures before they may participate in city-funded education. The tone of alarm is unwarranted. This is not a slippery slope situation.
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