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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#231

Post by jokoon »

I'm not a fan of china controlling such a popular app, but at the same time, I don't see how it could be a security risk. I guess in the same way fake news and deceptive political advertising was used on Facebook to elect Trump, for example?

I'm really puzzled by how the US believes in free speech, but when speech comes from another country, it's a security risk. Now I totally get that China can use propaganda for "bad ideologies", but again, isn't propaganda part of free speech?

What this whole thing reveals, is that US likes to influence other countries (with its long history of foreign policy), but is afraid to be influenced by others, so it's a bit hypocritical.

And if it's not hypocritical, it's fair game at worst.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#232

Post by EamonnMR »

madeofpalk wrote: post #216
mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

TikTok's format is more successful at micro targeting and influencing people than Facebook. Other future social media networks will probably work in a similar way and be just as concerning. YouTube is another one that's very good at influencing people. I wonder if video is unsafe at any speed, so to speak...

A spooky example of TikTok-the-emergent-system's ability to influence people at scale. This one gave me pause. https://www.wbur.org/endlessthread/2022/06/03/tiktok-tics

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#233

Post by [deleted] »

shikoba wrote: post #217
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

It is because China is the enemy. When it's Facebook or Google strangely it's never an issue. Moral is always a facade for international economic war. And some people fall for it.

[deleted]

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#234

Post by thrown_22 »

SkinTaco wrote: post #122
lumost wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world does it make sense to allow a country who blocks access to their market unrestricted access to the US market? If china is a rival to the US, why do they have one of the most favorable trade deals?

> If china is a rival to the US, why do they have one of the most favorable trade deals? I don't have an answer for you, but when you rephrase the point you're getting at it's easy to see there are plenty of valid reasons, because this is not true: > There are no reasons for the US to give a favorable trade deal to a country that is otherwise a rival

There is a difference between letting China export low value added products with many producers vs a literal spy in your bedroom.

Is this now US policy too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTCqXlDjx18

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#235

Post by ceejayoz »

trasz wrote: post #227
illiac786 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming there is irony and you mean 2 is not enough. But it's still day and night compared to single party, irony is not an argument in itself.

No, two parties representing largely the same lobbyists and sharing largely the same views are not "night and day" compared to one party. I'd go as far as to say they are exactly the same, except for pretending there's some actual, working opposition.

This was an easier both sides-ism to get away a decade ago. It stretches credulity today.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#236

Post by pfisherman »

madeofpalk wrote: post #219
pfisherman wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More effective than Facebook or Google? Last I checked they didn’t have their “pixel” or SDK embedded in every web page or mobile app, beaming data back to them. Not saying that TikTok is benevolent or not a surveillance operation, just that they are not yet as big, insidious, or effective as Facebook or Google.

> Last I checked they didn’t have their “pixel” or SDK embedded in every web page or mobile app, beaming data back to them Oh you might actually be surprised about that one https://ads.tiktok.com/help/mobile/article?aid=9663

Lol! Of course they would! Thanks for this info.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#237

Post by guywatershow »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

Rules were made to be broken!

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#238

Post by fabianhjr »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#239

Post by EamonnMR »

Brybry wrote: post #229
dcchambers wrote: post #147

The addictive nature of TikTok scares the shit out of me. It's like the culmination of 20 years of social media research and testing purposely designed to create the most addictive product possible. Such a large percentage of young people use it...it's absolutely terrifying.

I wouldn't worry too much about TikTok's impact on the youth as a population (rather than specific individuals with evidence of actual struggles). Similar fears were expressed about music corrupting the youth. And TV rotting their brains. And video games turning them into mass murderers. And yet, even with all the actual addictive poisons generations of youth have imbibed, those youth turned into us and here we are p…

Are you sure TV didn't rot our brains?

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#240

Post by pempem »

shikoba wrote: post #217
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

It is because China is the enemy. When it's Facebook or Google strangely it's never an issue. Moral is always a facade for international economic war. And some people fall for it.

While most people on HN would agree that they would like more regulation of their data on FB and Google, these are largely still separate actors from the US government. You can even indicate that something like Cambridge Analytica is starting within a party, rather than the actual governing body.

There is too much sharing, IMO, without a doubt. That being said, they are not near synonymous as TikTok is.

Data regulation, privacy, influence through exposure are real issues worldwide. Tiktok has a raised profile due to its closeness with a governing state body.

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