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Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

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Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#231
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly I don't think you're very good at reading executives' words: you have to read through the lines and notice what they're not saying. Nowhere in that does he say outright where dealers fit into an online, fixed price world. He only makes super vague statements like "dealers will be more specialized." Reads to me like Jim isn't planning on dealers being around in the future but he's being vague enough to try not…

My interpretation is informed by the knowledge that what he’s saying is not legal in most of the United States. It’s understood that dealers cut into Ford’s profit margin, but Ford is not at liberty to change the laws in numerous states.

Ford is however at the liberty to lobby for laws to change, and to simply stop selling (electric) vehicles where the laws don't allow for direct sales - like Tesla did.

Tesla has pretty convincingly demonstrated that it's possible to run a car company in the US without paying off the dealerships. It's only going to be easier for the second mover here to also stop.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#232
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly I don't think you're very good at reading executives' words: you have to read through the lines and notice what they're not saying. Nowhere in that does he say outright where dealers fit into an online, fixed price world. He only makes super vague statements like "dealers will be more specialized." Reads to me like Jim isn't planning on dealers being around in the future but he's being vague enough to try not…

My interpretation is informed by the knowledge that what he’s saying is not legal in most of the United States. It’s understood that dealers cut into Ford’s profit margin, but Ford is not at liberty to change the laws in numerous states.

[deleted]

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diplomacy is the art of saying “good dog” until you make it to the rock. Ford is learning what Tesla knew from the start: dealership interests aren’t aligned with EV manufacturers. There’s very little service revenue, and dealers are incentivized to add “market adjustments” to vehicles (which Ford dealers have been doing) creating a poor customer experience. Ford has existing dealerships and is going to have a heck o…

That is very impressive actually. Though your typo made me laugh out loud. > Someone on Twitter recently posted their Model S turning over 400km with only $3k in maintenance costs. 400 kilometers and a $3k maintenance bill somewhat reflects the image of Tesla that you see a lot on the internet. Whether or not that is actually the case.

Distance typo fixed, thank you! Happy to have provided a chuckle.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#234
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local profit? That is, in many towns, my understanding is that the local dealerships are relatively well off. Which implies that a bit more of the money is kept local to where the cars are being sold. I'm guessing this is less true today than in years past.

Why is "local profit" is assumed to be a positive thing? It seems to me that if we were to prove keeping money in certain places to be a benefit to society as a whole there would be much more effective and direct ways of making it happen

Because it's evenly distributed throughout the country.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#235
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Ford (or any manufacturer) offer cars on their website for cheaper than MSRP? What is their incentive? MSRP is a suggested retail price, which is based off the manufacturer's costs + what they believe is a reasonable margin for their vendor (dealership in this case). Ford cutting out the middle man means they can offer cars at the same exact price (MSRP in this case), but not have all the expenses dealershi…

What you are saying doesn't make sense UNLESS there is a monopoly. Let's say it costs Ford $10k to manufacture the car. Let's say their average profit per car is $2k, and the dealership gets $1k on average - which means that ON AVERAGE, the dealer sells each car for $13k. Some people might get a good deal for $10k, and some pay $16k. MSRP is likely set to $16k. You are saying that in the fully online world, Ford woul…

Dude just wants to think that his haggling is putting them on top of all of us. When the CEO of Ford says he's spending 2k more than Tesla for delivery. We all lose, them included, but haggling makes them believe they're coming ahead.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#236
This article doesn't mention the fact that Ford is splitting into multiple units[0]. It makes sense for allowing current Ford dealerships to operate, however they may, but also allowing the online sales through a separate division with it's own business model.

This puts some real pressure on dealerships to change, as we slowly transition to a more EV world.

[0]https://www.npr.org/2022/03/02/1083913314/ford-modele-split-...

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is very impressive actually. Though your typo made me laugh out loud. > Someone on Twitter recently posted their Model S turning over 400km with only $3k in maintenance costs. 400 kilometers and a $3k maintenance bill somewhat reflects the image of Tesla that you see a lot on the internet. Whether or not that is actually the case.

Distance typo fixed, thank you! Happy to have provided a chuckle.

> 400k km

? LOL

Why not just use megameters? 400Mm

OK, something about that looks odd. But what's the point in SI units if you can't actually use them?

Maybe 250k miles?

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#238
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling online without negotiated price is a big change. That should make the dealerships really uncomfortable in the long run… he's kind of saying "oh the dealerships could rent out Mustangs" but is that actually realistic?

Diplomacy is the art of saying “good dog” until you make it to the rock. Ford is learning what Tesla knew from the start: dealership interests aren’t aligned with EV manufacturers. There’s very little service revenue, and dealers are incentivized to add “market adjustments” to vehicles (which Ford dealers have been doing) creating a poor customer experience. Ford has existing dealerships and is going to have a heck o…

I've bought 3 cars since 2008, I've spent $0 at the dealer on maintenance, they're all ICE... you shouldn't be going to the dealer unless it's warranty work. [well partly true, had a covered recall].

That said I had a dealer cuss me out for bringing them a quote from a mechanic for the same clutch replacement. "I can't f**ing cover my dealership like that" as if it was my problem. Same dealer who charged me $2k for a repair when they had the recall letter in their inbox.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#239
post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

> is there any counterpoint to this view?

I don't think the counterpoint has changed since it was codified in the laws of US states: limit the power of large corporations and their influence over sovereign states. Our ancestors were rather circumspect about corporate power within the US and created mechanisms to insulate themselves from that power.

The emergence of multinational corporations has naturally produced a similar model at the nation-state level: the ability of a global private enterprise to operate in some nation frequently depends on the existence of a domestic component, often in the form of a subsidiary with an obligation to retain executive staff that are citizens subject to the laws of the host nation.

My experience with dealers has been good. They've arranged financing competently, dealt with recall work, honored warranties and supplied OEM quality parts when needed. Nothing as complex as a passenger vehicle and all that goes into realizing one is ever perfect, but the dealers I've dealt with have met all of the expectations I've had of them. I suspect that much of the enmity towards dealers arises from unreasonable expectations. That's a suspicion. This isn't: the same people bitching about dealers today will be bitching at least as much about manufacturers when the dealers are gone.

At some point in this discussion someone speculated that the delegation of EV service to dealers is not viable due to the nature of EVs; the manufacturer must be directly involved or Bad Things will happen. That may be true. I don't know. I do know that, short of some form of mortal danger, I can't imagine a better argument to avoid EVs than that; I will never, ever own a vehicle that can't be properly serviced without the manufacturer's direct involvement. That would be deeply stupid.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Toyota and Honda don’t need much service, and I don’t see how they are money makers for the dealer Well first off, people like buy that marketing stuff hook line and sinker, so they make more on the sale. Second, pretty much any vehicle that rolls on earths surface is going to need stuff serviced in proportion to how close it is to the ground. For cars this means the dealer can make plenty of money selling brake pa…

The thing about Toyota and Honda though is they create loyal customers who keep coming back. My buddy has a Toyota with 250k miles on it. And that’s considered normal wear and tear. Good luck trying to get a Ford past 120k. Ever had to deal with a Ford dealership? It’s like visiting hell for a day.

It's all in the perceptions.

Pretty much everything made in the last 30yr lasts as long as you're willing to keep doing the normal scheduled maintenance and keep feeding it wear parts. The average Toyota buyer is a lot more willing and financially capable of doing that than the kind of person who rolls negative equity on an Altima into a Dodge Journey.

I used to be responsible for a fleet of delivery vans. I would have no qualms about buying Ford.

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