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Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

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Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#231

Post by 0x500x79 »

lolsal wrote: post #213

Can anyone honestly and sincerely tell me that online whiteboards are exactly equivalent to in-person whiteboard sessions? There is no value in having lunches together with your colleagues? There is no value in body-language when communicating? I'm all for fully WFH policies, but I think it's a bit naive or dishonest to say that it's exactly the same work experience. I've been working remote for over a decade and wil…

I think that a lot of those things can be replaced with new techniques as time goes on. Just because this is how we did things yesterday doesn't mean there aren't better ways to do this it just requires some thinking and investment, IMO.

The tooling that has been developed during the pandemic has taken this space forward by leaps and bounds and I expect this to continue.

Instead of focusing on the how, I would focus on the outcomes you are looking for and lets investigate paths forward for those outcomes.

My two cents: There is still body language over video calls, Miro and other whiteboarding solutions work pretty well, not every day needs intense whiteboarding sessions so have onsites when those are required, and good riddance to the lunches with colleagues. If we wanna have lunch let's get on a call and/or have some one-on-one time setup instead of thinking that lunch is somehow a team building exercise.

Not to mention the IMMENSE benefits you get from remote work. Having those tradeoffs and changing the way we work: I am all in.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#232

Post by post_break »

Invictus0 wrote: post #43
post_break wrote: post #39

The time theft of traffic, costs of fuel and wear and tear on your car, the cost of lunch if you don't pack a lunch. It all adds up when having to go back to the office. I hate that we had to return to the office because it was like getting a big pay cut. Even the 3 day a week thing, it's like what's the point? We can work from home obviously, what more does going in 3 times a week accomplish other than punish you, s…

Theft? Lol. Never get tired of hearing people making multiple 6 figures complain about their horrible life

I don't make 6 figures lol. If I made 6 figures I'd pay someone to drive my ass to work and back.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#234

Post by jedberg »

As a Cupertino resident, I'm pretty upset with their WFH policy. At the very least they should have let small teams choose their in office days.

Now I need to keep track of which days of the week they have to be in the office, because traffic in Cupertino will be 2x-3x worse on the days they are in the office.

Their choice of forcing everyone back on the same day is not only bad for their workers, but it's bad for all of their neighbors and the planet.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#235

Post by nacs »

kalleboo wrote: post #210
ethbr0 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought building Apple Park was just to keep Ives around a few more years.

That's what I thought the Apple Car project was, so he had something to design that just wasn't a rounded rect with a black mirror

> just wasn't a rounded rect with a black mirror

Are you challenging Ives to make a car that is a rounded rectangle with black mirror finish?

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#236

Post by [deleted] »

azth wrote: post #141

> and that the policy is wasteful, inflexible and will lead to a "younger, whiter, more male-dominated, more neuro-normative, more able-bodied" workforce. Does anyone take tossing around words like this seriously anymore? I am pro working remotely, but this is just ridiculous.

[deleted]

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#237

Post by banannaise »

jsiepkes wrote: post #68
post_break wrote: post #39

The time theft of traffic, costs of fuel and wear and tear on your car, the cost of lunch if you don't pack a lunch. It all adds up when having to go back to the office. I hate that we had to return to the office because it was like getting a big pay cut. Even the 3 day a week thing, it's like what's the point? We can work from home obviously, what more does going in 3 times a week accomplish other than punish you, s…

> The time theft of traffic, costs of fuel and wear and tear on your car, the cost of lunch if you don't pack a lunch. I'm all for remote work but calling it "time theft" feels a bit weird. You knew these things were a requirement when you signed your contract, right? If you didn't want these things then why didn't you either made a point of them in contract negotiations or simply went to a company that allowed remot…

It's a deliberate turn of the typical management canard that workers constantly commit "time theft" by not being on-task for the entirety of an eight-hour day.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#238

Post by [deleted] »

jedberg wrote: post #234

As a Cupertino resident, I'm pretty upset with their WFH policy. At the very least they should have let small teams choose their in office days. Now I need to keep track of which days of the week they have to be in the office, because traffic in Cupertino will be 2x-3x worse on the days they are in the office. Their choice of forcing everyone back on the same day is not only bad for their workers, but it's bad for al…

[deleted]

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#239

Post by lolsal »

CalRobert wrote: post #224
lolsal wrote: post #213

Can anyone honestly and sincerely tell me that online whiteboards are exactly equivalent to in-person whiteboard sessions? There is no value in having lunches together with your colleagues? There is no value in body-language when communicating? I'm all for fully WFH policies, but I think it's a bit naive or dishonest to say that it's exactly the same work experience. I've been working remote for over a decade and wil…

Your lunch break should be a break, not time you're forced to spend with your colleagues.

I agree! You're welcome to do whatever you want. But I am a friendly person and find it easy to make friends with my co-workers and we don't even talk about 'work' most of the time. I still have lunches with my colleagues from years ago that live in the same city, even though we don't work together.

Not every perk is about oppressing your freedom or exploiting your time and labor.

Re: Apple employees criticize work-from-home policy in open letter

#240

Post by no_wizard »

Even more frustrating: You can't just pick the campus you want to work from. When I worked at Apple most teams were distributed by seat availability not co-location, so you could be on the same campus or set of buildings but all work in different parts of the offices / campus so all meetings with exception of critical ones were held in a remote fashion in conference rooms anyway. So it wouldn't have mattered if I worked in Santa Clara, Apple Park, Infinite Loop, or Sacramento (yes, they have a campus there), or working from home, 80% of the time. They even had a shuttle that went from Sacramento to campuses every single day. It was so odd to me even to this day.

This was a common source of frustration for employees because they couldn't just work at the office closest to them or work from home. Very few people I knew there worked directly along side their team while I was there. I'm sure this wasn't true for everyone though, however I think it was at least at the time, the majority.

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