Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

reason.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 393 posts

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#231

Post by hikingsimulator »

ght wrote: post #229
Bilal_io wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Duncan Lemp should have received the media attention he deserves. That being said: 1- You said "This kind of violence affects everyone" and this is disingenuous when we look at the ratio of black vs white being murdered by police. [1] 2- The media attention Breonna et al. received was not about the individuals but for the community in general due to my previous point. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pn…

If we are going to bring into account how many African-Americans are being killed by police we need to also bring into account the FBI's violent crime statistics. Blacks made up 56% of known murder offenders. While European Whites were 28% of known murder offenders while making up 60-65% of the population. Remember, African-Americans are only 11% of the population. That is a huge discrepancy that needs to be brought…

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/1352-1...

Numbers are cool and all, but they can't be divorced from context: intergenerational poverty, police brutality and surveillance, the prison industrial complex. And so on.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#232

Post by PeterisP »

belter wrote: post #161
HPsquared wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data?

Number of convicted criminals Age of criminal Sex Income Type of crime Residence area Profession

One consideration is that this type of data can't possibly answer the grandparents question, because we know that the rate of prosecution and conviction is rather unequal, so for any subpopulation "number of convicted criminals" can not be expected to be proportional to "number of crimes", if one of two groups has more convictions it does not imply that it actually has done more crime.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#233

Post by LudwigNagasena »

jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

> Yet you can't bring the above up without some (predominantly white) people getting offended at the mere suggestion that the system is inherently racist.

Well, I am sorry, but bringing it up in a thread about a wealthy insurance broker Tarek Abou-Khatwa from D.C. definitely makes it sound like an alarmist racebait by a nutter.

Like, sure, government hides some stuff from the public. But it doesn’t make people who talk about UFOs and Zone 51 look reasonable when declassification is discussed.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#234

Post by boredumb »

jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

If you are trying to explain to a jury that your client was in danger and needed to defend himself against people, mentioning that the people had committed sexual assault and domestic violence would help with your case that they needed to be defended against and weren't "peaceful protesters" but, actually proven violent criminals that corroborate their violence against your client. The fact he shot three people and all of which happened to be

1. A person released from prison recently for disorderly conduct and a domestic abuse charge

2. An arsonist and convicted child molester

3. Convicted felon affiliated with the "Peoples Revolution" group best known for attacking a police officer, and pointing a loaded gun at your client.

These facts demonstrate without even showing the video footage, that all 3 had the capacity for violence and are the type of people that you may find yourself having to defend yourself against (as other have had to in the past)

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#235

Post by jmyeet »

throwaway040922 wrote: post #194
jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

Duncan Lemp was white, and was similarly awoken in the middle of the night by police, reached for a gun, and was shot dead (unlike Locke, I don't think he even pointed the gun at them). It actually happened the day before the Breonna Taylor shooting (another similar situation), but received almost no media attention. Even around the area where Duncan Lemp was killed, you will find a lot of posters for Breonna Taylor,…

The Lemp case has a number of pertinent differences.

First let me say that the bodycam footage to this day hasn't been released. Until it is, I give very little weight to the claims made by police. In fact this should be a rule: bodycam footage should be required for serving all warrants, arresting any suspect and so on. The police simply have too much power that can be abused and video footage (bodycam and amateur) has many times exposed the police lying.

Kemp at least was the subject of the warrant. I'm not saying this to justify excessive police violence. But it is a key difference.

As for what happened during the raid, it's hard to make conclusions since we don't have the bodycam footage.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#236

Post by croes »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #145
spacemanmatt wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically, they don't prosecute wealthy people much to start with.

Wealthy people also do less violent crime, and use the many loopholes instead of directly stealing or doing other crime. Even if they get caught, they usually just get summoned to court by mail, and most of them don't need a swat team because they're not violent. There was an interview with the Cops (tv show) producers, where they asked them why they show mostly black and poor white guys on the show, and not some whi…

Define violence.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/ferrero-says-knew...

Things like this are violence too.

The rich most of the time don't go to jail and if it's a different kind of jail. So they don't fight the police because they know it would make jail time more likely.

If they would have the same jail risk as the poor they would fight and run like the poor.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#237

Post by throwaway040922 »

magicalist wrote: post #224
throwaway040922 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duncan Lemp was white, and was similarly awoken in the middle of the night by police, reached for a gun, and was shot dead (unlike Locke, I don't think he even pointed the gun at them). It actually happened the day before the Breonna Taylor shooting (another similar situation), but received almost no media attention. Even around the area where Duncan Lemp was killed, you will find a lot of posters for Breonna Taylor,…

> but received almost no media attention Just because something didn't become an internet cause célèbre doesn't mean it didn't get attention. I mean, just from this site: - https://reason.com/2020/03/16/maryland-man-killed-in-no-knoc... - https://reason.com/2020/07/02/why-havent-we-seen-the-body-ca... - https://reason.com/video/2020/10/16/the-complicated-truth-ab... - https://reason.com/2021/01/08/prosecutors-office-…

I think the fact that you have to go to alternative media like Reason to find articles about it speaks volume. Check out searches of mainstream news sites:

Google search for "Duncan Lemp" site:nytimes.com[1]: Two articles, neither of which are about his shooting, but which mention him in passing when talking about Boogaloo "extremists."

Google search for "Breonna Taylor" site:nytimes.com[2]: Dozens of articles from the Times.

Google search for "Duncan Lemp" site:cnn.com[3]: No articles on CNN.

Google search for "Breonna Taylor" site:cnn.com[4]: Dozens of articles from CNN.

It's simply impossible to not notice the glaring disparity with the media coverage (and again, these two shootings happened a day apart).

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anytimes.com+%22duncan...

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acnn.com+%22breonna+ta...

[3] https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acnn.com+%22duncan+lem...

[4] https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acnn.com+%22breonna+ta...

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#238

Post by antattack »

Bilal_io wrote: post #207
throwaway040922 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duncan Lemp was white, and was similarly awoken in the middle of the night by police, reached for a gun, and was shot dead (unlike Locke, I don't think he even pointed the gun at them). It actually happened the day before the Breonna Taylor shooting (another similar situation), but received almost no media attention. Even around the area where Duncan Lemp was killed, you will find a lot of posters for Breonna Taylor,…

I believe Duncan Lemp should have received the media attention he deserves. That being said: 1- You said "This kind of violence affects everyone" and this is disingenuous when we look at the ratio of black vs white being murdered by police. [1] 2- The media attention Breonna et al. received was not about the individuals but for the community in general due to my previous point. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pn…

Dismissing others hardship or injustice because theirs is worse seems very counter productive. What is the intention of pointing out that African-Americans have it worse? Should we have special laws only for that group? Or, should more non African-Americans die due to bad laws to balance the scales.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#239

Post by seibelj »

nicoburns wrote: post #87
drekipus wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the point of capitalism is that people can do that, but shouldn't. And it should work in tandem with whatever social system that's set up, (justice, laws, morals, ethics, etc) Pyramid schemes steal a great amount of wealth, and should be regulated. Regulated capitalism is the good thing. The thing is, pyramid schemes aren't run by the state (or shouldn't be) and you don't have a gun to your head forcing you to p…

> Yes, the point of capitalism is that people can do that, but shouldn't. The "shouldn't" isn't very relevant here though. People shouldn't do that under a communist system either, and yet it happens under both. > I almost feel like "unregulated capitalism" is just a straw man argument that others get tricked into trying to defend. I wish it was a strawman, unfortunately libertarians who promote this kind of capitali…

In capitalism the default is freedom and decentralization. So people can choose to act immorally and that’s a trade off we accept as a price of freedom. We set up a criminal justice system to fix that bug and set monetary incentives in a way that encourages productive economic activity over exploitive. Finding some bad actors does not disregard the entire system, especially not one that was ultimately convicted and died in prison.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#240

Post by boredumb »

People screaming systemic racism in this thread because the FBI didn't knock down "Tarek Abou-Khatwa's" door, doubtfully read the article. If the system is racist than I can either guess they didn't read this or I imagine that they are implying the system is racist by protecting Arabic men.

Also this man committed insurance fraud, a non-violent crime with no history of violence so the need to catch them off guard before they can begin a shoot out with law enforcement was simply not a requisite. If he was selling illegal drugs and hoarding cash that required him to have fire arms and defend against possible home intruders trying to rob his black-market products/cash than this story would be different, and then the 'systemic racism' people could race bait the story, fortunately not the case, unfortunately the comments persist.

Post reply on HN