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Daddy isn’t coming back

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Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#231

Post by hn8788 »

babyshake wrote: post #220
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

Genuinely curious about this - if you call one of these numbers and say you are thinking of self harm but you are not actually going to hurt yourself and you do not want them to call whomever to your home are they likely to do it anyways?

A friend's husband called one of the suicide lines and he wasn't committed or visited by the police, so it's not a 100% chance. I don't know the details of what the husband talked about, but it may have been because it wasn't a recurring problem. He'd just had an especially awful time at work for a few weeks, and eventually had a breakdown and called a hotline.

He quit his job a couple of days later and has been fine since, so maybe the person on the phone can make a judgement call on whether it's a recurring issue that needs professional help, or something that is an extreme response to an isolated incident and the person will be fine after they're "talked down from the ledge".

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#232

Post by garbagetime »

codingdave wrote: post #151
aerovistae wrote: post #35

Not a comment on the story itself, but rather on the postscript which follows it: > If you are struggling to cope or have been affected by anything in this story, please contact the Samaritans in the UK at 116 123 or jo@samaritans.org. In the US, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273-8255. More information at mind.org.uk, samaritans.org and save.org Years ago, unhappy but not suicidal, I decided to ca…

You were not suicidal. Not passively, definitely not actively. The needs of the actively suicidal are not the same as someone who is unhappy and just calling to check the experience. I don't know if you've ever been around someone who is actively suicidal, but it is a completely different state of mind than normal interactions. What they need is not a connection or a therapy session to talk them down - that comes lat…

Being suicidal just means that you are at imminent risk of committing suicide. It isn't necessary to be in a completely different state of mind than normal for this to be the case.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#233

Post by watersb »

Wait list for private psychiatric care here can be six months long now. As for public assistance clinics, good luck...

Clinical-level psychiatric cases have increased since onset of the covid-19 pandemic. A number of doctors I have spoken to have said they are seeing twice as many patients, and cannot sustain this case load much longer.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#234

Post by favorited »

R0b0t1 wrote: post #194
perl4ever wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence of suicidal ideation is a specific example (and probably the most common) of what gets people involuntarily admitted to a mental ward. In fact, there are almost certainly more people admitted on that basis than actually have it, because if someone is not clearly a danger to themselves or others, but seriously needs help, the easiest way for emergency personnel to fudge it is by reporting a mention of suicide…

No, you prove it. If incidence of suicidal ideation goes up with number of involuntary holds then it means that psych facilities are not treating the problem. That is enough: that they are provably not treating it. First do no harm means you have to be causing good; ambivalence is treated as likely harm because it is invasive.

That's nonsense. You are not "provably not treating it" – you are provably not curing it.

If the people who receive the most chemotherapy sessions have the highest rates of cancer deaths, does that mean that oncologists are "provably not treating" cancer?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#235

Post by jkljkljkl1 »

anm89 wrote: post #213
c22 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your general sentiment, but speaking as someone who has been in jail and also involuntarily committed on multiple occasions, jail is much much worse. All the downsides you listed apply to jail time also, but the food is more terrible, the environment more restrictive, and the opportunities for extricating yourself (if you are reasonably cogent) are greatly reduced. Also, ironically, being in jail on suic…

Thanks for the perspective. I have never experienced either directly so at best I'm speculating although I've been around many people who have been through both. My basis for making that comment is that at least ostensibly you get due process in the legal system. Hope you came out the other side in a good place.

Involuntary commitment from mental health is a min. 72 hours here, but I think you can be in and out of a drunk tank faster than that, which is usually just a few hours to sober up. I could see a bail hearing happening quick enough that you get in and out before 72 hours, but I don't know how common that is.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#236

Post by anm89 »

babyshake wrote: post #220
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

Genuinely curious about this - if you call one of these numbers and say you are thinking of self harm but you are not actually going to hurt yourself and you do not want them to call whomever to your home are they likely to do it anyways?

You absolutely might not have any issues. But you absolutely might. It could come down to if the operator has had their lunch break yet.

So the question is do you want to play roulette with your physical freedom.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#237

Post by Fr0styMatt88 »

anm89 wrote: post #219
Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, is there anywhere I can read more about this aspect of the system? This comment seems really extreme and it's a perspective I haven't really seen anywhere else.

I'll hunt around but one thing that came to to the top of my head: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/03/22/navigating-and-or-avoi... I don't know if he's considered to be a controversial figure or not generally but he is a real psychiatrist so I'd argue he knows what he is talking about

Thank you very much for posting this article, I'm reading it now.

This paragraph really resonated with me and with the initial thoughts I had whilst reading your comment; I'm pasting it here as I think it provides a very worthwhile perspective:

"And my second excuse is that in the end, this is not an adversarial enterprise. Psychiatrists commit people because they’re scared. They’re scared because they can’t predict what the patient is going to do – and on another level, they’re scared because they might get sued if they don’t follow the rules. If patients who aren’t going to hurt themselves know how to explain that they aren’t going to hurt themselves in a way that reassures their psychiatrist, and in a way that doesn’t leave their psychiatrist legally liable for not committing them, then everybody can be more comfortable and get on with the hard work of actual treatment."

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#238

Post by ls612 »

jkljkljkl1 wrote: post #235
anm89 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the perspective. I have never experienced either directly so at best I'm speculating although I've been around many people who have been through both. My basis for making that comment is that at least ostensibly you get due process in the legal system. Hope you came out the other side in a good place.

Involuntary commitment from mental health is a min. 72 hours here, but I think you can be in and out of a drunk tank faster than that, which is usually just a few hours to sober up. I could see a bail hearing happening quick enough that you get in and out before 72 hours, but I don't know how common that is.

Arraignment in most places is max 48-72hrs after arrest (except possibly for legal holidays) and unless the crime is serious you will usually be released after that.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#239

Post by eggsmediumrare »

bettysdiagnose wrote: post #80
podgaj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing shortage? Probably, but why? In a town I lived in for a bit 50% of the houses were second houses, i would drive around and see them all dark, sitting there empty. Her where I am now, the housing has been moved over to AirBNB. It is all greed. And go to a poor town? And not have healthcare, be away from my friends and support? But yes, I have tried it. They ask me what I do and when I say I am on disability th…

You're right, he doesn't. The idea that somehow it is sensible, when you're seriously ill, to just abandon your entire support network for financial reasons makes next to no sense whatsoever. Thank you for sharing your story and I wish you all the best.

Any pronouncement beginning with "they should just..." is almost always born of ignorance.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#240

Post by eggsmediumrare »

bettysdiagnose wrote: post #60
BurningFrog wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that I cannot get housing just proves no one cares. All it proves is that there is a big housing shortage. Have you tried taking your van somewhere where housing is dirt cheap? I hear small poor towns are better at taking care of the downtrodden too. Walk into the church poor people go to, and see what happens.

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