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Daddy isn’t coming back

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Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#211

Post by rackjack »

GDC7 wrote: post #184
quadrangle wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "own the world" idea sounds more like the manic side of bipolar disorder rather than a healthy moderation that represents a "non-depressed person". You're right that "own the world" mania is dangerous and destructive. I hope you're not suggesting that this is the inevitable tragic state as the only alternative to depression. People in the thousands-of-years-ago African plains were still people. They weren't in a…

> There really are healthy moderated ways to live. Nature doesn't like moderation. It likes a variety of many extremes so that it can reward those extremes which are particularly adapted/lucky to win in that particular moment. And win big.

What kind of people have you been interacting with that your impression of the non-depressed is "they think they own the world"?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#212

Post by ayngg »

anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

I think the best part is the dance you do when looking for a therapist where you try to say you really need help, but you have to temper that severity by saying that you aren't in such bad shape that you are suicidal for fear that they commit you to protocol or something.

In reality mental healthcare feels like only a slight step up from antiquated methods from days long gone. Trying the medication roulette is like spending months at a time throwing darts blindfolded to see if anything helps, hurts or does nothing at all. Waiting months to see professionals who are burned out or just trying their best to not be completely overwhelmed by the demand but are unable to give meaningful care because of how overwhelmed they are. Or not even being able to see a therapist at all because it is cost prohibitive. And then consider basically having to do that on the side while you have your other obligations that you have to tend to. I wouldn't be surprised if only a fraction of people who need help get it, and of that fraction, only a fraction of them see a benefit. It basically boils down to society not caring, or barely caring at most.

In the end I suspect that the efficacy of mental healthcare has its limits, after all it is like trying to fix people after they have been broken, which is way harder than supporting people before they break, but that depends on social structures and support groups that are increasingly weak and strained.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#213

Post by anm89 »

c22 wrote: post #197
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

I agree with your general sentiment, but speaking as someone who has been in jail and also involuntarily committed on multiple occasions, jail is much much worse. All the downsides you listed apply to jail time also, but the food is more terrible, the environment more restrictive, and the opportunities for extricating yourself (if you are reasonably cogent) are greatly reduced. Also, ironically, being in jail on suic…

Thanks for the perspective. I have never experienced either directly so at best I'm speculating although I've been around many people who have been through both.

My basis for making that comment is that at least ostensibly you get due process in the legal system.

Hope you came out the other side in a good place.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#215

Post by downut »

kreeben wrote: post #199
cyberpunk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, your friend in Belgium doesn't appreciate what he has, I come from a small island off the west coast of Scotland, where rain is rather common... You could resent it, or you could install roof windows, a log burner and invest on a decent whisky and have the best possible environment for getting deep into a hardback book that possible exists (possible enhanced by a collie dog laying on your feet). Life is weird. We…

Anyone who can find joy in a glass of whiskey and a terrific hardbook is going to be fine, is what I think, no matter what obstacle, unless they go too hard on the books.

I went pretty hard on the books during the late... viral disturbances, and I think it was for the better. But the best hardbook experience I've had in... decades? was to finally restart and finish Ulysses, in a 40 year old copy, that I started when I was twenty and had not suffered enough to appreciate.

Had to keep the Lagavulin ecstasies partitioned off for the duration of the read, necessarily.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#216

Post by rackjack »

chris_wot wrote: post #209
codingdave wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were not suicidal. Not passively, definitely not actively. The needs of the actively suicidal are not the same as someone who is unhappy and just calling to check the experience. I don't know if you've ever been around someone who is actively suicidal, but it is a completely different state of mind than normal interactions. What they need is not a connection or a therapy session to talk them down - that comes lat…

If you are suicidal, don't call a hotline. See a friend, talk to family, but don't consult a professional. Professionals, in many countries, are bound by law to refer you to a psych ward. Even if your state of mind is temporary, you'll be stuck there for days, weeks and sometimes even months. Often, staff are abusive. If you are suicidal, do not call a hotline.

It's 3am, you ring a friend, they don't pick up. You ring home, your parents are asleep. "do NOT call a hotline" you remember. Nobody to talk to. Nobody loves you. Worthless piece of human fucking garbage. Better off dead. Better off dead when the people who "love" you aren't there when you need them. Waste of space, waste of air. A bother. You're just bothering them. The last thing they'll think of you as is a bother. That's how worthless you are. Piece of shit. Absolute garbage. Better off dead. Just fucking end it already.

^ Thought process of a suicidal person.

"do NOT call a hotline" is, IMO, actively harmful advice. If you're debating whether or not you should call, remember that normal people wouldn't even think about it, and call the damn hotline. Save your life.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#217

Post by s1artibartfast »

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #174
woofcat wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Suppose each person in a sample of 100,000 people were asked how much he or she would be willing to pay for a reduction in their individual risk of dying of 1 in 100,000, or 0.001%, over the next year. Since this reduction in risk would mean that we would expect one fewer death among the sample of 100,000 people over the next year on average, this is sometimes described as "one statistical life saved.” Now suppose t…

It’s not a false statement. You are correct that saving lives in this way doesn’t put money in anyone’s pocket. Nor can the value generated be taxed. However, it generates $50 billion relative to the actual state of the world in which there is a cost that large due to suicides.

>However, it generates $50 billion relative to the actual state of the world in which there is a cost that large due to suicides.

What does that mean? What if I say a life is worth 1 trillion dollars, of 1 google dollars? does that mean that if I save a life the world is 1 trillion dollars richer?

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#218

Post by kempbellt »

chris_wot wrote: post #209
codingdave wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were not suicidal. Not passively, definitely not actively. The needs of the actively suicidal are not the same as someone who is unhappy and just calling to check the experience. I don't know if you've ever been around someone who is actively suicidal, but it is a completely different state of mind than normal interactions. What they need is not a connection or a therapy session to talk them down - that comes lat…

If you are suicidal, don't call a hotline. See a friend, talk to family, but don't consult a professional. Professionals, in many countries, are bound by law to refer you to a psych ward. Even if your state of mind is temporary, you'll be stuck there for days, weeks and sometimes even months. Often, staff are abusive. If you are suicidal, do not call a hotline.

> If you are suicidal, do not call a hotline.

Everything you said above is true, but this is advice that I feel on the fence about giving.

If you call a hotline, it is not unlikely that your life will be disrupted. You may very well be involuntarily committed to a psych ward for days/weeks/months, depending on your mental state. Some psych wards aren't great, but some really aren't all that bad.

It may sound scary to have your life disrupted like this, but hey...

If you are feeling suicidal... Ya know, considering ending your life suicidal... Maybe this kind of disruption is exactly what you need.

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#219

Post by anm89 »

Fr0styMatt88 wrote: post #193
anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

If you don't mind me asking, is there anywhere I can read more about this aspect of the system? This comment seems really extreme and it's a perspective I haven't really seen anywhere else.

I'll hunt around but one thing that came to to the top of my head:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/03/22/navigating-and-or-avoi...

I don't know if he's considered to be a controversial figure or not generally but he is a real psychiatrist so I'd argue he knows what he is talking about

Re: Daddy isn’t coming back

#220

Post by babyshake »

anm89 wrote: post #180

This is the part where every one piles in posting suicide hotline numbers. I would argue most of those people do not have any experience with, or understanding of those hotlines and it's just a trite thing to throw out to show support like "fuck cancer". You should seriously understand what you are signing yourself up for if you call one of those numbers on yourself or someone else. For one you are volunteering that…

Genuinely curious about this - if you call one of these numbers and say you are thinking of self harm but you are not actually going to hurt yourself and you do not want them to call whomever to your home are they likely to do it anyways?
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