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Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

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Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#231

Post by cameronh90 »

joecool1029 wrote: post #141
NikolaNovak wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to re learn the lyrics to Oh Canada and sing them joyously and thankfully... Our banking system gets a lot of ire but dear Gawd.

I seem to recall there being service levels at banks in Canada and maximum numbers of transactions per month until one gets hit with per-transaction fees. I was told explicitly when I opened my TD Canada Trust account there that it was imperative that I both keep money in the accounts and use them occasionally or dormancy fees would accrue (and if there was no money left, they'd then slam it with overdraft fees). The…

UK banks are pretty heavily regulated. For example, the overdraft fee spiral has been banned and in many cases banks were required to pay compensation.

Yet we have quite a lot of banks to pick from - around 60 if you include building societies (more if you include private, niche and specialist banks). We also have a fair few new and digital challenger banks like Monzo, Starling, Atom, Revolut and arguably Metro Bank. If anything our banking system seems far more innovative than the US system.

I don't know about Canada, but clearly regulations don't mean that you can't have competition and innovation.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#232

Post by ThunderSizzle »

rdevsrex wrote: post #164
numair wrote: post #43

The beginning of this article is a fairy tale that ignores what used to be one of the biggest drivers of revenue for banks: overdraft fees. Maybe the HN crowd has never been in a situation where they were auto-billed into a negative balance, which then caused an overdraft fee that then further drove their balance into negative territory, but this was a weekly/monthly fiasco for millions of Americans. I was once in a…

Yeah, that’s why eventually paid 5 bucks a month more for an account without an overdraft facility, meaning any negative transactions would be rejected. I can’t believe this isn’t the default.

Or just use a credit card with a low credit limit?

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#233

Post by throwaway98797 »

FunHearing3443 wrote: post #134
kccqzy wrote: post #59

> Typically, the apps offer their users a choice: payouts at the speed of banking, for free, or payouts at the speed of the Internet, for a small convenience fee. Cash App charges 1.5% with a minimum of a quarter. This is just another way the financial system (including fintech startups) preys on the poor. If you are well off, you wouldn't want to pay any convenience fee for the privilege of receiving money from a bu…

I get where you're coming from, but is the solution to simply not allow instant receiving of money? No one's being forced to use these apps.

There’s social pressure. Who wants to be weird to avoid a small fee?

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#234

Post by beh9540 »

numair wrote: post #43

The beginning of this article is a fairy tale that ignores what used to be one of the biggest drivers of revenue for banks: overdraft fees. Maybe the HN crowd has never been in a situation where they were auto-billed into a negative balance, which then caused an overdraft fee that then further drove their balance into negative territory, but this was a weekly/monthly fiasco for millions of Americans. I was once in a…

This and the glee of executives over systems that increase the potential for overdrafts or charge backs is why I’m glad to not be in banking anymore.

One of my most memorable conversations was with a rep from one of the core processors about how she makes it her mission to make sure everyone in her family opts out of overdraft protection.

Banks spend so much time on the wording to make it sound like they’re doing you a favor, I’ve had to convince my wife not we didn’t want it.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#235

Post by lottin »

chrisseaton wrote: post #224
lottin wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I don't want a loan, even if it's for free.

Well up to you but that’s irrational - it’s leaving money on the table and what’s more you’re actually paying for my free loan and my cash back and my protection and my free flights and not getting anything yourself, as I’m paying the same price for products as you.

It's not irrational, there's a whole bunch of other things you're not considering. For example, a debt creates a financial obligation and as such it diminishes one's personal autonomy. People who value their personal autonomy will take that into consideration before going into debt.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#237

Post by throwaway98797 »

lottin wrote: post #235
chrisseaton wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well up to you but that’s irrational - it’s leaving money on the table and what’s more you’re actually paying for my free loan and my cash back and my protection and my free flights and not getting anything yourself, as I’m paying the same price for products as you.

It's not irrational, there's a whole bunch of other things you're not considering. For example, a debt creates a financial obligation and as such it diminishes one's personal autonomy. People who value their personal autonomy will take that into consideration before going into debt.

Arent you in debt to your stomach?

You need to eat.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#238

Post by throwaway98797 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #67

> the industry generally estimates approximately $350 a year in costs to maintain a checking account, of which approximately $120 is direct marginal cost Does this not seem ridiculously high to anyone else?

If you think you can do it cheaper, build it. Save all of us money.

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#239

Post by throwaway98797 »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #203
spir wrote: post #190

I'd be interested to know patio11's updated take on the long arc of crypto. As a crypto person, it's cool to see how the benefits he describes-- eg lower transaction costs, embedded finance, and novel items such as bundling reporting and instant settlement-- are also driving much of the product-side interest in crypto and web3.

Lower transaction fees? I moved a few hundred £ into my wallet the other day for some Ethereum and paid like £50 in various fees and gas. The crypto world is full of layers of middle men taking their slice. Even swapping some ENS to ETH cost over $100 in gas

I mean your ENS was free money tho, so …

Re: Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure

#240

Post by netcan »

numair wrote: post #215
netcan wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hoo... Ho. That's a bit much. "half PR" & " politically inconvenient " are an unnecessary assumption of bad faith. Patio11's not doing PR or propoganda. Disagree and/or add to the discussion as you see fit, but let's try to be a little more generous... especially to a member with such a history of contribution to the community.

> Patio11's not doing PR or propoganda. An employee of a multinational financial services company writes a historically revisionist article about an area in which his company has direct regulatory and financial exposure.[1] With only implicit disclosures of conflict of interest. I would say that it is only because of the author’s long-term goodwill in this community that this stuff isn’t looked upon with a very criti…

historically revisionist?

I don't see how we can get anywhere discussing like this. Instead of discussing the topic, it's all meta. Ad hominems, characterizations of the argument and accusations of bad faith.

As I said, disagree and make your case. You don't have to assume credibility, but don't assume malice. What's the point of having a discussion if it's not a good faith discussion.

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