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Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

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Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#231

Post by cphoover »

RoboticWater wrote: post #196
cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

For all the use cases I deal with on a regular basis, Svelte looks more like vanilla HTML/JS than any equivalent React code. And the reason these things change is because that's what needed changing . One of the topline features of Svelte is that is has less boilerplate than React, and it achieves that quite handily. Unless you're criticizing particular constructs in Svelte that are unjustifiably different, I don't t…

What how can you say that???

      {myItems.map({id, title}) => 
          {title}
      }
vs... svelte

     {#each myItems as item}
         {item.title}
     {/each}
One is literally just javascript and html the other is an entirely different template language. You might say... JSX is not HTML... well it's very very similar... If you know HTML you JSX is very intuitive.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#232

Post by O_H_E »

dceddia wrote: post #174
vips7L wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you look at .Net solutions like Maui, xamarin, uno platform, or AvaloniaUI?

My thought process was, if I’m gonna have to rewrite the app, I may as well use the web dev skills I already have, so that at least the UI work will be in my wheelhouse. Rust is new to me, as is low-level ffmpeg stuff, both of which I’ve had to learn from scratch. I learned Swift in order to build the Mac app, and I know from that experience that building custom UI controls while learning a new ecosystem slowed me do…

That sounds like a responsible way to divide focus. Kudos

I forget the word or the link, but I think there was a "rule of thumb" thing that circulated HN about having a limited budget for taking-risks/being-bleeding-edge, and focus in spending that on differentiating properties of your projects, while the rest should stay "old and boring"

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#233

Post by kall »

tpict wrote: post #202
cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

JSX is syntactic sugar for `React.createElement(...)` (most commonly), so React pretty much is plain JavaScript.

Yeah, It‘s my favorite templating abstraction because I could convert it by hand and so I don‘t really need to mentally model it as an additional layer.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#234

Post by kall »

tekkk wrote: post #29

Wow, this should be great news for Svelte and SvelteKit! Hopefully with Vercel's backing these projects will fly off. Having worked with React for about 5 years (with a project in Vue in-between) and now having dabbled with Svelte, there is just something more appealing working with less higher-level abstractions. Sure with large apps React does have its benefits and its ecosystem is larger by a good amount. But ther…

Well if there‘s any place to learn from next.js it‘s probably Vercel. Looks like great news for Svelte.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#235

Post by slantyyz »

clivestaples wrote: post #24
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #4

It'd be more fun if I could do it in something that wasn't in Javascript or one of its Frankenstein cousins.

I do React for my day job. For personal projects and MVPs, I came back to Rails and it has been insanely fun. I can drop in whatever frontend framework I want or none at all.

With Sveltekit, you can actually build your back end with it as well. The path based routing is so nice and intuitive (compared to my recollection of Rails 3.x), and if you compile your SvelteKit application with the node adapter, it will include a back-end server too.

The only catch of course, is that you have to like both Svelte and NodeJS.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#236

Post by dceddia »

O_H_E wrote: post #232
dceddia wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thought process was, if I’m gonna have to rewrite the app, I may as well use the web dev skills I already have, so that at least the UI work will be in my wheelhouse. Rust is new to me, as is low-level ffmpeg stuff, both of which I’ve had to learn from scratch. I learned Swift in order to build the Mac app, and I know from that experience that building custom UI controls while learning a new ecosystem slowed me do…

That sounds like a responsible way to divide focus. Kudos I forget the word or the link, but I think there was a "rule of thumb" thing that circulated HN about having a limited budget for taking-risks/being-bleeding-edge, and focus in spending that on differentiating properties of your projects, while the rest should stay "old and boring"

Thanks, and yes! "Choose Boring Technology", love this: http://boringtechnology.club/

The idea of spending fewer "innovation tokens" was definitely on my mind when I was thinking through this.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#237

Post by makeramen »

cphoover wrote: post #231
RoboticWater wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the use cases I deal with on a regular basis, Svelte looks more like vanilla HTML/JS than any equivalent React code. And the reason these things change is because that's what needed changing . One of the topline features of Svelte is that is has less boilerplate than React, and it achieves that quite handily. Unless you're criticizing particular constructs in Svelte that are unjustifiably different, I don't t…

What how can you say that??? {myItems.map({id, title}) => {title} } vs... svelte {#each myItems as item} {item.title} {/each} One is literally just javascript and html the other is an entirely different template language. You might say... JSX is not HTML... well it's very very similar... If you know HTML you JSX is very intuitive.

> If you know HTML you JSX is very intuitive.

That's a poor assumption that appears to be based on your personal preferences and what you're comfortable with. I personally find both require some learning, but prefer the svelte version.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#238

Post by cphoover »

fron wrote: post #207
RoboticWater wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all the use cases I deal with on a regular basis, Svelte looks more like vanilla HTML/JS than any equivalent React code. And the reason these things change is because that's what needed changing . One of the topline features of Svelte is that is has less boilerplate than React, and it achieves that quite handily. Unless you're criticizing particular constructs in Svelte that are unjustifiably different, I don't t…

> but the idea of having to learn different language constructs for loops and the like doesn't seem that herculean of a task. I agree. As long as you understand the basic concepts, it's only a matter of learning the syntax, which is really not as big of a deal as the person you replied to is making it out to be.

It's not a herculean task... I agree, until you've learned 10+ (angular, vue, svelte, wordpress/php, jade templates, laravel, underscore/lodash, handlebars/mustache, hugo, etc..) of these "super simple templating languages"! And keep them all straight. I have no problem learning a new language if there is a compelling reason. But If it's just additional shit I have to remember for no clear reason... No thanks...

We can have a debate on unidirectional data flow vs 2-way binding, how each framework manages state changes, how opinionated each framework is... How mature and vibrant each developer community is... etc. These are all another discussion though. My question is why must we reinvent the wheel again and again.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#239

Post by gherkinnn »

cphoover wrote: post #182

I'm tired of having to learn yet another templating language without a very compelling reason. Why do I have to learn, what is essentially, a new programming language for each of these frameworks (Angular, Svelte, Vue, React... Do I really need to learn yet another language construct for stuff like `loops`, `if/else`, event handlers...etc. Why must all of these frameworks re-invent the wheel? At least with React it i…

You don't need to know every framework. And that little bit of custom syntax is peanuts compared to how the rest of these differ.

Even if Angular and React shared the same templating syntax, you'd still be left with 95% of work ahead of you.

Re: Rich Harris joins Vercel to work on Svelte full time

#240

Post by DonHopkins »

sxiao wrote: post #145
afavour wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Vercel actually “control” Svelte, though? The existing governance structure is untouched, they’re just paying the salary of the lead (and definitely not only) developer.

Not sure if this topic is worth our time to debate. There are millions of ways of subtly controlling/influencing entities. And it's much easier if you pay money, ESOP and pay even more money if future goals and exits come alive.

The Zope Corporation hired Guido van Rossum to work on Zope for three years (a Python web application server and content management system), then he moved on. That didn't destroy Guido, or Zope, or Python.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zope

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_van_Rossum#Work

>He has worked for various research institutes, including the Centrum Wiskunde & Informatica (CWI) in the Netherlands, the U.S. National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), and the Corporation for National Research Initiatives (CNRI). From 2000 until 2003 he worked for Zope Corporation. In 2003 Van Rossum left Zope for Elemental Security. While there he worked on a custom programming language for the organization. From 2005 to December 2012, he worked at Google, where he spent half of his time developing the Python language. In January 2013, he started working for Dropbox. In October 2019, Van Rossum officially retired before coming out of retirement the following year to join Microsoft.

Guido and Rich are both uncontrollable forces of nature!

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