Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#231

Post by jonstaab » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:21 PM UTC

First balanced take I've seen from the establishment yet, good for them.

Over a year and a half of completely bizarre policy surrounding covid, I've warmed up to the idea that the West is currently in the process of importing China's brand of social-credit totalitarianism to the rest of the world. I know it sounds crazy, but if you have a little intellectual curiosity, I encourage you to listen to "LaserHodl's" case for Monetary Reset:

- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/265-monetary-reset-mal...

- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/270-better-understandi...

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=posr1XHh8JA

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#232

Post by JoshTriplett » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

beaner wrote: post #198

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

Kids can also be carriers, and more spread among a partially resistant population means more mutation and more variants. Vaccines are in the process of being approved for all ages.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#233

Post by draw_down » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

tonmoy wrote: post #130

darthvoldemort wrote: post #21

A recent study from Israel said that natural immunity is an order of magnitude better than vaccine-induced immunity against delta variant. I don't know who to believe, but if that's the case, then the narrative of "well they should get vaccinated anyway" is really freaking suspicious. We need deeper research on this, and the fact that they haven't researched this is truly scary.

Please provide a credible source (preferably a peer reviewed publication) for such a bold claim.

Come on

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#234

Post by angelzen » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #194

angelzen wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For teens, UK [edit:] Chief Medical Officer recommends but not mandates first dose, and does not recommend second dose at least until spring. The benefits are marginal. 2 ICU prevented admissions / million first doses 87 hospital prevented admissions / million first doses 0.16 ICU prevented admissions / million second doses 6 hospital prevented admissions / million second doses > Having the vaccine is not compulsory.…

On the other hand, the UK vaccination advisory board does not recommend vaccinating under-16s because they consider there to be inadequate evidence the risks outweigh the benefits. (Despite considerable and very public political pressure to come to a different conclusion, and if I remember correctly even some of the members who were most sceptical about it resigning and being replaced.)

Quoting from the recent BBC article: "The UK's chief medical officers recommended a single Pfizer dose for all children aged 12 to 15." Perhaps there is a difference of position between 'advisory board' and 'chief medical officer', I am not that familiar with the UK scene.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#235

Post by xxpor » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

klebe wrote: post #185

jakemoshenko wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slight correction: vaccines are still not available to children under 12.

yeah small note to add here: the last pediatric vaccine (garadasil / HPV) went through a decade of clinical trials before approval

The infection rate and how HPV spreads is completely different from an airborne virus. The time comparison to do trials isn't really meaningful.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#236

Post by lern_too_spel » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

beaner wrote: post #198

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #155

Why? Probably because everyone and their uncle self-diagnosed a bad cold as COVID-19 and plenty more would lie about having natural immunity. Still I don't understand the current approach to COVID in the US. Vaccines are safe and available yet we only just approved the use in children under 12. I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18. On the other hand p…

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

> Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19.

What use is it to compare two different things? Those heart problems aren't all hospitalizations. Teenage boys who get COVID-19 are more likely to have heart problems than teenage boys who get vaccinated. Teenage boys who get COVID-19 are more likely to be hospitalized than teenage boys who get vaccinated. Many young men have died of COVID-19, and none have died of the vaccine.

> Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0]

More than twice as many died in August as in July or as in August of last year. With Delta and school in session, expect this number to go up for September.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#237

Post by alecst » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

anonAndOn wrote: post #175

jjeaff wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest issue is that a lot of people think they had covid previously but didn't get tested so they don't really know. I thought I had covid early in the pandemic. Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. I suspect a lot of people that think they had it are the same.

>Took a serology test and found out that I had not had it. How soon after you were ill? Aren't the antibodies nigh undetectable XX weeks after you recover?

IgG antibodies linger for a while, like months or longer. It’s a quick way of telling whether your vaccine worked, by just getting an antibody test.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#238

Post by chitowneats » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

lghh wrote: post #217

beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.

Then you should be concerned about the considerable risk they will end up there due to heart inflammation (in the case of male children).

Edit: I'm not going to respond to every comment below that points out that it's extremely rare, other than to ask that you compare that chance to the chance of hospitalization due to covid, which according to the link above is less likely.

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#239

Post by vibrato2 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

lghh wrote: post #217

beaner wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard second hand many doctors are downplaying the importance of the vaccine for people under 18 The vaccine is not important for people under 18. Only 412 people age 17 or younger in the US have died from covid. [0] Teenage boys are six times more likely to suffer from heart problems from the vaccine than be hospitalised from Covid-19. [1] [0] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex... […

I'm not sure why death is the only thing we're trying to avoid. Currently, children's ICUs in Oklahoma are full in part due to the number of Covid patients. I'd rather my child not end up in the hospital, much less be turned away from one in a time of need.

Did you miss the data point that boys are 6x more likely to be affected from the therapy than the illness?

Re: Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US?

#240

Post by nradov » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #52

The answers aren't medical, they're pragmatic. - COVID-19 Antibody Tests cost more than the vaccine (roughly $40 Vs. $16/dose). - We lack the quantity of Antibody Tests we'd need. - We'd need to set up additional systems and processes to accommodate the testing and proof (which, again, is a cost). The implicit assumption that often go along with these natural immunity proponents is that the vaccine is unsafe. Since i…

Safety is not a binary condition. The vaccines have a good safety profile as confirmed through large-scale clinical trials, and have met stringent FDA criteria. However the risk isn't zero. The CDC has acknowledged a small risk of myocarditis for the mRNA vaccines.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...

This isn't generally a reason to avoid vaccination for most of the population, however the risk / benefit ratio may be different for some sub-populations. In particular there has been a higher than expected rate of adverse cardiac events for adolescent males.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v...

So particularly for those adolescents who have already recovered from infection and have no other risk factors we should have a scientific discussion about whether vaccination makes sense from an evidence-based medicine perspective. Unfortunately the issue has been so politicized that any suggestion of caution often gets misinterpreted as being anti-vaccination.