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England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

bbc.co.uk

231–240 of 460 posts

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about waiting for full FDA approval? I agree that your Facebook Mom groups are full of BS but why are PhD earners more hesitant than only high school educated [1]. [1] - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v...

The Pfizer vaccine has already received full FDA approval, and Moderna is expected to get it shortly.

While this is technically true, it's only because the FDA abandoned all previous procedure for full approval.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#232

Well, if the large majority of your population is already vaccinated, I guess these passports could potentially be dismissed, if masks are still mandatory, but for some countries - like Portugal where we have +80% of the pop. vaccinated - the main concern are tourists that completely disregard any etiquette or measures in place. So I think keeping passports is a good measure, not perfect due to breakthrough infection…

> if masks are still mandatory

Cloth masks provide no protection against viruses. If you don’t believe me, just read the warnings on the box itself.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#233
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the Covid misinformation, buddy! Thanks in part to your diligent work, many people will get sick and die! Give yourself a pay on the back! And whatever you do, suppress this: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...

> For people who are vaccinated and still get infected (i.e., “breakthrough infections”), there is a risk of transmission to others. Not sure why you’d want to suppress that truth. It’s just a little vague on how big the chances are.

Of course the vaccination isn't a perfect shield -- not against covid infections nor transmission... who said it was? But wouldn't that be a pretty stupid bar to set?

You said the vaccine does not prevent people from getting infected. That is not true. The popular vaccines are about 95% effective. Also, people who are not infected do not transmit the virus -- that is a rather effective limit on transmission.

Apart from infections, the vaccine also reduces the severity of covid. The severity of covid-19 is the whole damn problem, BTW. If it wasn't making lots of people seriously sick we wouldn't be worrying about infections in the first place.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America it’s widely controversial to require ID when voting, but not so in the rest of the world.

> In America it’s widely controversial to require ID when voting Yes, one party seems to think those of a non-white skin color are unable (through ignorance or lack of access) to obtain any form of ID so they can vote.

No, they think the poor are less likely to be able to get ID. You probably also think that, because it is obviously true. You don't need to transform it into a reverse-wokeness argument.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#236
post #39

> "I've never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers or something to do what is just an everyday activity, but we were right to properly look at it. We regularly show papers for everyday activities - library card for reading books, ID for a hotel stay, driving license for driving a car, ID to pickup a parcel etc.

Those IDs are not meant to 1) show your medical history which is a protected right and 2) is used as a way to coerce a medical intervention which is against free and informed consent. Forcing medical interventions in the name of the public good has always degenerated in the worse atrocities and abuses in history.

> 1) show your medical history which is a protected right

Your medical history is not a "protected right." The people who provide medical care to you are not allowed to release your medical records without your consent.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you think of a solution that doesn't just allow government officials to profit even more? If you build in a system where the government can extract profit by not complying with their actions, what makes you think you wont someday find yourself on the wrong side of those actions? Keep in mind, your side might not always be the one in control and once you hand over extra power to the government it's extremely rare…

How does the govt profit here? They are losing b/trillions due to covid in lost taxes, medical expenses, and individual sentiment. What is your solution if you don’t want people vaccinated? I couldn’t care less if people get vaccinated but I def don’t want to pay for them when there’s an easy way to lower those costs right now. (And, please tell me, who is “my” side? Logic and reason?)

The people self selecting into positions of power wanting more power?

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about waiting for full FDA approval? I agree that your Facebook Mom groups are full of BS but why are PhD earners more hesitant than only high school educated [1]. [1] - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v...

If it’s not a PhD in biochemistry or something similar, then it’s not relevant to their decision making abilities. FDA approval is based on having enough data to determine efficacy and safety - with so many administered doses at this point there is no question about either of those things.

Is your argument that only "PhD in biohemistry or something similar" can make decisions about the vaccine? I think that's incredibly patronizing to the vast majority of humanity. There is literally vaccines that earned FDA approval in recent memory that were later found to cause problems in babies [1]. If people are concerned about vaccines, the best way to deal with it is to address concerns, show them the data. Not calling them stupid for not having a PhD.

[1] - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history....

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#239
post #229
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there must be a strong correlation. I had a classmate who was horrified to learn I checked the organ donor box in my driver's license. Their parents told them if you check that box, the medical staff will be more likely to let you die so they can reuse your parts. I did't have any authoritative answer but the point is there are people out there with fears that sound rational but are completely in the rea…

> fears that sound rational but are completely in the realm of conspiracy theory. Sadly these fears in the UK are well-founded: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Hey_organs_scandal * https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/missing... There were quite a few other similar scandals, particularly in England. The medical profession in this country, for a very long time, has had a remarkable contempt for t…

Organ donation is now opt-out in the UK.

Re: England vaccine passport plans ditched, health secretary says

#240
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICU load is now much lower for a given level of cases and barring new variants it will likely decrease further with boaster shots and more people recovered from infection and possible new therapeutics. Moderately increasing ICU capacity would be expensive but not vastly so. See "people in ventilator beds" in the link https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

> barring new variants I didn't know this was an option. How do we go about doing it?

That's not what barring means. The statement is contingent on there not being new variants.
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