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The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

theguardian.com

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Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#231

Post by superkuh »

harry8 wrote: post #222

This story cannot be discussed in any meaningful way without reference to Wikileaks being fully denied access to payment tech while having been charged with no crime.

The article did explicitly reference Wikileaks being blockaded by financial services.

>One salient example occurred in 2014 when WePay – a payment service provider that had gained traction with sex workers and activists after its CEO described the company as the “anti-PayPal” after the latter’s denial of service to WikiLeaks...

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#232

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #202
ashtonkem wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that the banks all move in lock step, undermining the basic principle of the free market. If one bank decides it doesn’t want to deal with porn, fine. But when all the banks decide that, that’s very very bad. The cumulative effect is a chilling of protected speech in a way that congress could never legally get away with.

The banks are all regulated "in lockstep" by the same same regulator (FDIC), which can and does tell banks which industries to not serve. Anyone discussing this needs to be aware of "Operation Chokepoint".

This. In the conferences I attend, I can see a regular push towards very invasive review of every transaction. Last time I heard it I think I can paraphrase it as 'we can see SKUs, why are we not stopping transaction there and then?'.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#233

Post by harry8 »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #221
peterparkour wrote: post #181

Silly me, thinking the real scandal is that our daughters are forced to sell nudes to survive.

Many businesses cannot hire enough employees. Everywhere I walk I see help wanted signs. Hourly rates are going up. Are they being forced to sell something, or a conscious choice?

How does the wages increase with help wanted signs compare to the rent increase in the last decade or two in your annecdotes? Food? Health insurance? Student debt repayments?

I don't know i just want to see real data before condemning anyone at all.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#234

Post by literallyaduck »

jasonjayr wrote: post #173
qwytw wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you might as well say that any riot or even a protest any of the people from these groups participate is an attempt to overthrow the government.

They pushed through security, and accessed private offices, and destroy property, with the stated intent to stop the vote count. On Camera. This was not a protest or a riot, they intended to disrupt the normal order of governance.

Just like AOC and 150 of her companions did to Pelosi?

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#235

Post by ajross »

treebot wrote: post #146
ajross wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a stack, though. Sure, no sex work consumer ever said that[1], but their bank sure as hell did. Which is why they had a handy credit card in their pocket with which they were able to easily pay OnlyFans, who were able to easily receive the transaction. It's about TRUST . Banks and consumers and providers work together to come up with a framework where fraud is so difficult as to be largely a vanishing concern fo…

The lack of charge back is really a small issue. I don't think it applies here. Crypto does solve this problem. Even if there's the lack of charge back, it still overcomes the censorship problem, which traditional systems do not. So do you want censorship + charge back? Or no censorship and no charge back? In this case, I think it's clearly the latter.

You're missing the point. "Chargeback" happens to be a mechanism that exists to promote trust in the market. Trust is the requirement, not mechanism. Right now no one uses crypto to send folks $20 a month for n00dz. Period. No one does this. Why?

Trust. Crypto providers don't trust they won't be hacked. Crypto consumers don't trust they aren't being scammed. There's no trust.

But their Visa card or OnlyFans account? Those they trust. Credit card billing has been around for decades and we all know it works.

Crypto needs to be like that. Address the Trust Problem. Stop fixating on anonymity.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#236

Post by harry8 »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #31

Meh. Everybody was like "private companies can do whatever they like" when parler was censored off the internet. Now why is it a big deal when the same happens to a porn site? Only fans can create their own Visa and Mastercard if they want.

And Parler can obviously make their own mobile phones with comparable market access to Apple and Android combined with most apple and Android users more than happy to abandon their investment in their asset on principle.

If you didn't immediately ditch your iphone obviously that means Apple are beyond criticism of any kind because the market.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#237

Post by kingkawn »

ashtonkem wrote: post #51
pessimizer wrote: post #25

The reason the banks, and through the banks OnlyFans, attack sex is because they are accountable, and don't wish to take risks unless they are very profitable risks. The real danger of platforms and banks is how happy they are to censor for the government, or simply the loudest, richest mouth, in order to keep the profit flowing. If you want to fix it, you put in legal protections for people to do business, rather th…

The issue is that the banks all move in lock step, undermining the basic principle of the free market. If one bank decides it doesn’t want to deal with porn, fine. But when all the banks decide that, that’s very very bad. The cumulative effect is a chilling of protected speech in a way that congress could never legally get away with.

I have yet to see any principles at play in this free market.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#238

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

myself248 wrote: post #212
rattray wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know the specific reason banks find the adult industry risky?

Two reasons. One is the higher incidence of chargebacks. You don't have to ask if something is naughty -- just look for the chargebacks and it'll tell you. What happens is someone charges a thing, their partner sees it on the CC statement and asks about it, the first person is ashamed to admit it so they act shocked and insist it MUST be fraud because THEY would never charge something like that, and to keep up appear…

There is one more: legal compliance.

While there is no law on the books that says banks can't do business with OnlyFans, there are laws ( BSA comes to mind ) that in effect create incentives for banks to 'derisk' problematic customers. Some get branded high risk based on internal and industry standards.

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#239

Post by gadders »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #127
sarabad2021 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely true. Whoever is downvoting leave a comment to explain. Are we okay with banks discriminating against free speech but not against porn?

What's your point? That someone at the Guardian does not share your personal opinion? As for me, I'm not okay with either banks discriminating against free speech and banks discriminating against porn. For example, I was vigorously against banks blocking Wikileaks payments. Therefore, I'm fine with the Guardian article.

What about banning Proud Boy accounts or Gab/Andrew Torba?

Re: The real OnlyFans scandal is the unaccountable power of platforms and banks

#240

Post by lmz »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #103
bufferoverflow wrote: post #81

It's interesting to see the comments from people who supported Youtube/Twitter/FB/Patreon/Visa political censorship, but are suddenly against the porn censorship by the payment same systems. "Rules for thee, but not for me."

Payments are like water and electricity, utilities, and should be regulated as such. If you’re not breaking the law, interfering with legal payments should be a sanctionable offense by regulators. Social platforms are not utilities, nor is my blog and its comment section. This speaks to the need for censor proof payments systems that can still accommodate KYC and AML requirements (so you’re not violating financial re…

There's always interbank transfers / ACH as long as they have bank accounts. It's a pain to use though.
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