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Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

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Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#231

Post by cmrdporcupine »

momirlan wrote: post #217
munificent wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The industrial revolution divided the world into those who had capital (owned factories, tools, land, etc.) and those who produced labor (worked in the factories, used the tools, worked the land, etc.). Those on the side of labor couldn't provide value without access to capital where it could be used. Conversely, those with capital need labor to extract value from it. The factories don't run themselves. In theory, th…

The division happened when transitioning from hunter gatherers (which didn't need possessions, just hard work) to agriculture, where land became a prized possession.

Different ages, different divisions, different criterion.

1500 years ago those who could hoard land and power and influence after the fall of the Western Roman Empire went into decline formed the kernel the feudal aristocracy. But those who were able to capitalize on the merchant and industrial revolutions starting 500 years ago, and the rise of global capitalism, became the kernel of the bourgeoisie in the modern era.

We'll see what happens next.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#232

Post by JohnFen »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #141
HWR_14 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This decision must be correct because management is making it" is a strange idea. Clearly they make mistakes. And clearly their data may not be sufficiently deep for "the new security measures make people not want to shop here so they stay away"

Of course every decision is not correct, but the previous responses were written as if the purpose of the decisions that management made was to inconvenience or harass people, rather than simply an effort to stay in business.

If they have to harass people to stay in business, perhaps they shouldn't stay in business.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#233

Post by JohnFen »

derefr wrote: post #88
MichaelGroves wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When store employees are told not to physically detain any shoplifter, it hardly matters at all if they tell a serial shoplifter to leave the store. The shoplifter will walk around the confronting employee, grab whatever they like off the shelves, and walk out without paying for it. (I've seen this happen numerous times at 7-11, where the facial recognition is being run by store employees using their eyeballs/brains.…

Humans won’t detain anyone, but probably in the future there will be mechanistic countermeasures — e.g. the doors of the store just not opening for shoplifters (or at all, while shoplifters continue to be present — to prevent shoplifters from sneaking in ahead/behind a non-blacklisted customer.) Unmanned stores in the Amazon Go mould are already switching from turnstiles to airlock-style entryways; these can easily r…

> the doors of the store just not opening for shoplifters (or at all, while shoplifters continue to be present — to prevent shoplifters from sneaking in ahead/behind a non-blacklisted customer.)

This is illegal in my state. And, I'm guessing, in most other US states as well.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#234

Post by oramit »

nonfamous wrote: post #179
oramit wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care to keep what I buy at the grocery store private? I'm not trying to be flippant with this question. I'm just honestly perplexed why this is an important dateset to keep private. Also, why would I want to avoid discounts? Grocery stores are one of the few places that gives me money for handing them my data. Isn't this good behavior!?

What you buy at a grocery store can reveal a lot about you: - Personal care products: gender - Medications: age/health of you and family members - Magazines/media: political affiliation, social class The list goes on. [Edit: formatting]

Yes, you can infer a lot based on grocery store purchases. I don't deny it - but why does it matter?

What bad things have happened to the average person based on grocery store purchase history?

Again, i'm not trying to be flippant with my questions I'm honestly just frustrated after decades of following privacy discussions that there isn't a clear answer to this question.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#235

Post by JohnFen »

mikem170 wrote: post #92
chubot wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh I think it’s going to be acceptable to wear a mask for at least 5 years, and perhaps indefinitely, which easily defeats facial recognition.

They can already identify people wearing masks [0]: > a normal face mask doesn’t help you ‘evade’ facial recognition [0] https://privacyinternational.org/news-analysis/4511/can-covi...

A fair number of systems are still foiled by masks, as long as the mask covers the entire lower face and is black.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#236

Post by emodendroket »

mikecoles wrote: post #152
emodendroket wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the point? No way out really.

Shop local, independent stores. Vote with your wallet.

I'll take my chances with the panopticon.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#237

Post by JohnFen »

opportune wrote: post #137
Workaccount2 wrote: post #28

Wait till it can ID shoplifting, and people get added to a shared database of blacklisted shoppers. You can steal no problem, but one day you'll be approached and asked to leave upon entering almost anywhere.

This is only bad if there is no way to appeal such a decision. If implemented well this is probably a good thing. Shoplifting raises prices/reduces availability for shoppers who don’t shoplift (yes, it lowers profit too. It does both).

> This is only bad if there is no way to appeal such a decision.

This is only true if being falsely accused didn't cost you anything (in terms of time, money, etc.), and if the cost of appealling is zero.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#238

Post by swiley »

JohnFen wrote: post #211
GuB-42 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may actually close the class divide a little. The thing with privacy is the more wealthy you are, the more valuable it is. For example, if I want to sell something, I will want to target the wealthiest first. Same thing for scammers, and newspapers will follow celebrities. Who care about the poor, there is no money to extract from them. So let's get back to the private shopper. A rich and famous man will want to…

> The one who can afford not to use loyalty card will earn the shop more profit (because no discount), meaning that it can offer bigger discounts to others. I don't use loyalty cards, but I don't pay more because of it. There still exist stores that don't have them, and my observation is that the regular prices on those stores are about the same as the "loyalty card discount" price at other stores. The "discount" you…

Many of the stores I've been to give the cashiers a "store" card that they just swipe if you don't have one (even if you've never signed up.) It probably violates some corporate policy but they seem to get away with it.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#239

Post by JohnFen »

scrps wrote: post #208

This may be a stupid idea and it is outside my expertise (IANAL): Would legally classifying identity information as intellectual property help? I don't know the case law around identity as private property but I would imagine requiring someone to enter into a legally binding contract just to enter a store would kill efforts like these pretty fast.

If the scheme relies on copyright or trademark for effectiveness, then it wouldn't help. Not sure about other forms of IP law.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#240

Post by bussierem »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #218
JohnFen wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be the last time I went on an RCL cruise.

But the point is it would be too late, right? So at that point, might as well keep taking cruises if you want to. When the discussion is Albertsons is scanning your face - I’m not sure it’s practical to think it’s avoidable anymore.

It's too late to stop, but it's not too late to vote with your wallet and feet and stop supporting businesses who feel the needs to betray your privacy like this just because it was buried in a TOS that they know nobody read.
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