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Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

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Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#231

Post by mulmen »

taeric wrote: post #107
mulmen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in the Junction in West Seattle for 7 years. Highly walkable, lots of highrises in the core, but still lots of (very expensive!) single family homes. Now I live on Alki and it is much less walkable. I can get around but have to climb Admiral to get to a grocery store. Several of our bus routes were permanently closed. Queen Anne benefits from being in Seattle and the economic benefits that has to businesses t…

Right. But whenever I hear that "walkable places are expensive", I hear folks talking about places like Seattle. Or downtown Atlanta. What places are we talking about that are a) highly walkable, b) expensive, and c) not at capacity? (This is a genuine question. I fully cede that I could just be completely miscalibrated for this.)

I think we are talking past each other. When you said “The supply in walkable areas will, by near definition, be lower than places you have to drive to.“ I interpreted that to mean there is less total supply. You seem to be speaking to available supply.

> What places are we talking about that are a) highly walkable, b) expensive, and c) not at capacity?

I don’t think there is such a place. If a place is walkable it is going to be at or near capacity which makes it expensive.

The lack of these areas seems to be a result of an unwillingness to increase density.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#232

Post by btheshoe »

Honestly this stuff is part of what makes me want to move to Shanghai, or another city in east Asia at some point in my life. The public transport there was just incredible - super efficient, super clean, extremely accessible. I'm in tech though, so probably stuck to the bay area :/

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#233

Post by whalabi »

graeme wrote: post #69
cletus wrote: post #17

No, they don’t. This is a classic example of listening to what people say vs observing what they do. And it’s a good lesson in product development. Ask your users “do you want X?” And the answer is inevitably “yes”. Ask them “do you want A or B?” And you’ll start to get a better approximation of user behavior. Better yet is observing actual behavior. In this case Americans have chosen the suburbs in droves. Americans…

Your thesis is flawed. It is illegal to build new dense walkable neighborhoods in almost all of north america. But existing neighbourhoods of that style tend to be both highly priced to live in and also popular tourist destinations, implying high desirability. The older east coat cities built walkable neighbourhoods before they became illegal.

Wait why is it illegal to build dense walkable neighbourhoods? Which laws?

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#234

Post by whalabi »

Rapzid wrote: post #213
reportingsjr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a hard choice when suburbs have been subsidized like hell for about 70 years while money has been drained out of cities to pay for said suburbs. Here in Ohio there is this garbage designation for "rural farming areas" called townships that get huge infrastructures subsidies/grants, even though they are all just suburbs/exurbs. Look at any of the areas around Cincinnati, Columbus, or Cleveland and check out h…

Drained out of the cities? Nearly all of Texas is what most people would consider "suburb". Even the "urban" areas are mostly sprawl. Very little of Texas is walkable by any stretch.

Out of curiosity, is Austin an exception?

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#235

Post by CapricornNoble »

cbdumas wrote: post #28
version_five wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's hardest to find, and what I prefer, is somewhere it's easy to walk and drive. I've lived in walkable places where if you do have to drive, traffic is a nightmare. And then of course there are places where you can drive without traffic but there is nowhere to walk to. I think I prefer the latter with my lifestyle, though it becomes more frustrating for meeting friends, going our for dinner + drinks, etc. For sp…

I think it's hard to find because those two preferences are in direct, irresolvable conflict.

Japan manages it pretty well. The mass transit system of Tokyo is well known. But the city is also zoned such that walking or biking from an apartment/house/hotel to a restaurant, supermarket, or even a major park or museum is easy and fairly safe. The roads are clean and well-maintained, and traffic really isn't that bad. Street parking is rarely allowed, but small parking lots are numerous albeit expensive.

Biking and public transit moves most commuters off of the streets, leaving the roads to the owners of luxury cars and driving aficionados who don't mind paying the tax premium to subsidize their vehicular access. I pay $450/yr in road taxes, kei car drivers pay maybe $75, and someone with a big-displacement engine like a Lexus IS-F or a Mercedes AMG probably pays $800-$1000 every year. I'm totally ok with this system.

I spent 3 weeks in the New Jersey suburbs of Philadelphia and HATED how I couldn't walk to anything....but the roads are also of absolutely terrible quality (potholes everywhere) and are mostly straight and boring highway travel, so they aren't even fun to drive. Then I quarantined in Tokyo for 2 weeks and everything was a convenient 5-minute walk away. If I LIVED in Tokyo, I would still own my sports cars there, as I love the freedom of being able to travel longer distances, at any time, with privacy and storage capacity.

I'm in another region of Japan where the public transit is almost non-existent but the walking-friendly zoning helps to compensate. I don't NEED a car to get to the convenience store or the supermarket, but they definitely make life 100x easier, especially since the weather here is terrible more often than not.

So I'd say Japan is proof that walkability and driveability are not in "irresolvable conflict".

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#236

Post by atoav »

jackson1442 wrote: post #5

I like my car and I like driving. That said, I don't like driving _everywhere_. When I moved to university, it was incredibly freeing to just be able to walk somewhere I wanted to go rather than getting in my car and driving miles to get anywhere. I grew up in a suburb in Texas so walking anywhere except _maybe_ a friend's house was entirely out of the question. I visited Portland recently and it was lovely to be abl…

I liked driving too, but I lived in a larger German city for the past decade and didn't need a car. If I want groceries I walk across the street. If I want to go to work I cycle there (which is faster than taking the car or the subway at that time of the day, additionally you are more awake at work and get a little movement).

The few times a year where I need to transport something bigger, I just rent a car or get one from a car sharing service, or I transport it in the subway/S-Bahn.

I grew up on the countryside, where cars were a necessity and give you freedom, but living here not having a car gives me freedom. I don't have to think about my car, where to park it, where I parked it, how to maintain it etc.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#237

Post by aix1 »

davidw wrote: post #220
newyankee wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only solution i see is a brand new city built from ground up with entirely new rules and welcoming people to that kind of life. Car free, autonomous pods, grids, public transit and small footprint. If it succeeds then others will have a model to emulate. I do not know what legal changes will be needed to make something like this happen. There is no reason other than safety where existing archaic town planning rules n…

Cities are pretty adaptable, no need to build one from scratch. Look at how Amsterdam changed, or how Paris is changing now

To illustrate, here are some historic photos of Amsterdam: https://exploring-and-observing-cities.org/2016/01/11/amster...

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#238

Post by CapricornNoble »

PrisonerofWS wrote: post #191

It's absolute pie in the sky to think Americans will give up their cars. Walkability is great for a sunny Saturday morning farmers market. But that's not going to move the needle on carbon in any significant way. Living in a "walkable" neighborhood with two cars in the driveway is like recycling. It makes us feel like we're doing something meaningful to rationalize all the junk we buy on Amazon. But one car per house…

>>>But one car per household would make a significant difference. It's not just carbon emissions. It's also the energy required to manufacture and ship the second car. You can still drive anywhere, anytime but one car forces you to coordinate and make choices.

I know a woman who divorced her husband and moved back to Japan because they only had 1 car, and her lack of mobility kept her from getting a job or doing much of anything besides sitting in the house. I think they were living in the Atlanta suburbs, which I'm not familiar with.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#239

Post by aix1 »

makerofspoons wrote: post #30
kiba wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often joke that aliens would mistake the cars, not people, to be the dominant intelligent species of this planet.

There's a great Canadian cartoon that explored that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFaHArkYLsM

Amazing, thanks so much for sharing!

P.S. The section on reproduction is hilarious.

Re: Surveys show Americans want more walkable cities

#240

Post by mrgordon »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #176
mrgordon wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans would say the Netherlands is tough for driving I think because the cars are smaller, the lanes are smaller, there is light rail everywhere, many pedestrians and bikers everywhere, etc. I think all these decisions are why the Netherlands are so lovely and most of America is seemingly highways, strip malls, and suburbs. One of the most popular Dutch vacations is biking around the country and camping inst…

> One of the most popular Dutch vacations is biking around the country and camping instead of staying at hotels. It’s quite far from American car culture in that regard. American car culture is to go on vacation to drive up camping spots. You can't actually camp in many places without a car. There isn't really public transit from Seattle to Mt. Ranier national park, for example, and the distances is too far and the t…

Yes being flat does help for sure. In much of Europe I think they solve this problem with trains or sometimes buses to get to the parks or outlying areas. For example, much of Italy is hill towns and no one wants to walk up huge hills to get to each town but you can typically get there with transit.

The United States admittedly is quite large and spread out but if we started to connect more things with transit then I think it would stop feeling so much this way. Like why couldn’t there be a connection from San Francisco to Tahoe that doesn’t involve driving? It’s a very very popular weekend trip and a train would be great for moving skis and other equipment.

If you live near Seattle, you’re lucky to have some of the better planning in the United States and some of the more open-minded people with regards to transit, camping, etc. In a place like Florida, for example, it is fairly common to meet people who’ve never been camping unless maybe you count a music festival. The priority is often air conditioning, a nice hotel room towering over the beach, etc. which is not what the Dutch seek out for the most part

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