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Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

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Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#231

Post by mbostleman »

CrazyStat wrote: post #107
motohagiography wrote: post #36

The idea that politicians and bureaucracies can defer to external international conventions to be the bad-cop for wildly unpopular policy decisions - and then claim to be powerless to stop them - is anathema to democratic principles like national representation, consent of the governed, and other concepts of human rights. This proposal seems like a global group of government affiliated people colluding to fleece each…

Raising corporate taxes is generally popular, not "wildly unpopular." For example, in a recent poll 65% of Americans support raising corporate taxes [1]. This number has been fairly steady over time. It's even higher when you ask about closing loopholes that allow international tax havens, as this 15% minimum tax agreement is trying to do--70-85% support [2]. The only terrible shame here is you laundering your opinio…

I wonder what percentage of that 65% would claim to be against taxation that is regressive without realizing that corporate tax is exactly that.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#232

Post by asteroidbelt »

pope_meat wrote: post #210
asteroidbelt wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense What is the evidence that now is worse than say 30 years ago for the bottom 50%? It is perceived that it is worse now. But is it objectively worse?

Cost of education Cost of housing Cost of healthcare went up. Income went down. So I guess you're right, objectively things are much better, it's just my perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem.

> Cost of education went up

If you need high education, you just take credit, and pay for it with your salary which is much higher than it was 30 years ago.

And if you think that you won't be able to pay for credit because it's not possible to find a decent job with liberal arts degree, then probably you don't need that education.

> Cost of housing went up

I suspect that's because construction workers are paid well now. So instead of studying classical literature in high school, maybe study bricklaying.

> Cost of healthcare went up

This is the issue, but "taxing the rich" won't solve it. It need to be properly regulated. The fact that insulin costs $100 has nothing to do with taxes for the rich people.

> Income went down

Seems like it is not true. There's a chart: inflation adjusted median household income.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

It goes up.

> perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem

Man, I don't know your situation.

Sometimes people pay for something they shouldn't.

Like buying a shiny new car while old car only need occasional repairs, or buying top new iphones while cheapest android is 1/10 of that.

When I was young I rented a flat which costed me about 70% of income, while I could rent a room for 30% of my income, or a flat for 30% of income and two hours commute. But it didn't matter because I was young, and I would not do that now. If that's your case, you may need to reconsider your worldview. If it's not, than I don't really know your situation to comment on that.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#233

Post by sokoloff »

pope_meat wrote: post #210
asteroidbelt wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense What is the evidence that now is worse than say 30 years ago for the bottom 50%? It is perceived that it is worse now. But is it objectively worse?

Cost of education Cost of housing Cost of healthcare went up. Income went down. So I guess you're right, objectively things are much better, it's just my perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem.

> Income went down.

I'm having a hard time finding where in the chart that happened across the last 30 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_wages#/media/File:United_...

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#234

Post by kelnos »

realityking wrote: post #175
robomartin wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

65% of Americans have no clue what it takes to run a business of any scale. They can barely calculate a tip at the restaurant, yet they think they are qualified to make decisions on taxation. The flavor of democracy we practice has been good. However, we must be honest enough to admit it can degenerate into mob rule, which generally means decisions are made by the most gullible and ignorant among us on any specific t…

> In a globalized economy we need lower taxes. Zero would be an even better number. Isn’t that point precisely addressed by the Biden administrations of setting a global minimum tax rate? If every country, or at least every country without signify the trade barriers (who cares what happens in North Korea) has the same tax rate than there’s no incentive for companies to move their profits - or the entire company - abr…

I don't really see the point to all of this. There will always be loopholes that allow multi-national companies to avoid tax to some extent.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just set corporate tax rates to zero, and instead raise taxes on income and -- especially -- capital gains? And the US already has a personal tax system where it doesn't matter where you earn income: if you're a US citizen, you have to consider US income taxes, period. So the problem where people try to push their personal income out of the country to avoid tax just doesn't crop up as much.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#235

Post by dantheman »

mullingitover wrote: post #221
dantheman wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that doesn't happen? Bezos paid 973 Million in taxes [1], note that article conflates income and wealth in a truly economic illiterate way. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/irs-records-show-wealt...

Bezos is playing it pretty straight, but then again 973 million is basically pocket change for him, also let's not forget about the year he paid zero taxes and got a refund : > Bezos filed a tax return in 2011 reporting he lost money because of bad investments, allowing him to claim and receive a $4,000 tax credit for his children, according to ProPublica. Anway Bezos is far from the only mega-rich person, for exampl…

When looking at a single year for people who have losses and expenses it can paint quite a misleading picture. Over 10 years how much did they pay, is a much better question.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#236

Post by svachalek »

djrogers wrote: post #95
throwaway34241 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically the shareholders that pay this tax - the corporate tax being described here only on applies to the profits, so salaries for example would be counted as an expense and not included in that. There's also not a lot of reason for this to be passed on to the consumer - if raising prices would let the company make more profit, it would make sense for them to do that anyway regardless of the specific tax rate…

Shareholders tend not to wind up holding the bag - higher corporate taxes result in higher prices at the consumer level.

No one ever wants to argue the opposite -- "but if you tax consumers, they won't spend as much, and corporations won't make as much money!" Although personally if I had to bet on one way or the other, I would say this reversal is easier to prove.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#237

Post by heavyset_go »

asteroidbelt wrote: post #207
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem like e.g. the US could impose this unilaterally. You, a company, have to make two tax returns: one on all the money you made here, and one on all the money you and/or your relevant "parent" corporation made elsewhere. Same rules to calculate taxes in both cases. On the latter return, you can subtract the sum of the taxes you paid elsewhere from the tax owed. The rest belongs to the US government. At that…

Yes, this is exactly what the US does with US citizens: they pay the maximum of the US income taxes and the residence country income taxes.

> they pay the maximum of the US income taxes and the residence country income taxes.

The IRS collects on income over $108k/year, and income over that amount is taxed at that bracket and higher. Foreign Tax Credit also prevents double dipping by the IRS.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#238

Post by pope_meat »

sokoloff wrote: post #233
pope_meat wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of education Cost of housing Cost of healthcare went up. Income went down. So I guess you're right, objectively things are much better, it's just my perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem.

> Income went down. I'm having a hard time finding where in the chart that happened across the last 30 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_wages#/media/File:United_...

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/income-share-of-bottom-50-...

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#239

Post by pope_meat »

asteroidbelt wrote: post #232
pope_meat wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of education Cost of housing Cost of healthcare went up. Income went down. So I guess you're right, objectively things are much better, it's just my perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem.

> Cost of education went up If you need high education, you just take credit, and pay for it with your salary which is much higher than it was 30 years ago. And if you think that you won't be able to pay for credit because it's not possible to find a decent job with liberal arts degree, then probably you don't need that education. > Cost of housing went up I suspect that's because construction workers are paid well n…

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/income-share-of-bottom-50-...

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#240

Post by svachalek »

natvert wrote: post #29

When the benefits of creating a new country outweigh the costs (to shareholders), does it fall within the fiduciary duty of corporate leaders to form a new country?

It seems at some point, it's in shareholder interest to run wars and black ops against foreign corponations. And then we've gone full cyberpunk.
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