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Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

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Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#101

Post by ceejayoz »

throwkeep wrote: post #58
mustafa_pasi wrote: post #40

This is a new kind of imperialism. The G7 makes up the rules, under the guise of fighting tax evasion or financing of terrorist activities. Then they make all the less powerful countries comply to those rules. If they do not, they get greylisted or blacklisted by some "international" watchdog, making it much harder for those countries to participate in the global economy. Of course only the poorer less influential co…

You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBBxWtKKQiA

Sounds scary out of context, but it's hardly a silly prediction.

Uber, AirBnB, clothing rental, device upgrade plans...

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#102

Post by doomroot »

ineptech wrote: post #87
motohagiography wrote: post #36

The idea that politicians and bureaucracies can defer to external international conventions to be the bad-cop for wildly unpopular policy decisions - and then claim to be powerless to stop them - is anathema to democratic principles like national representation, consent of the governed, and other concepts of human rights. This proposal seems like a global group of government affiliated people colluding to fleece each…

I think you're misunderstanding the concept here, this has nothing to do with dodging responsibility for unpopular policies. If you think countries shouldn't tax corporate profits at all, great, but that's a separate discussion; this is predicated on the assumption that all countries desire a non-zero corporate tax, and just need a way to get there. The point of this measure is to avoid a coordination trap that leads…

Low Corporate tax rates invite corporations into your country. This benefits poor countries more.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#103

Post by runarberg »

jbaudanza wrote: post #26

Imposing taxes on a legal entity always seemed fishy to me. Politically, it sounds great to say, "Make the corporations pay their share!", but who exactly are we targeting with these taxes? Is it the rich executives? Why not just raise taxes on the rich directly? I suspect in most cases the tax burden is just shifted onto the lower-income workers or the customers somehow.

I think you’ll find hints of the answer in the fact that most countries are pretty bad at collecting taxes from the rich already. It is fairly easy if you are rich to hide your wealth and evade taxes. I suspect it might be a little more difficult for a publicly traded company to hide its wealth the same way.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#104

Post by ericffr »

repsilat wrote: post #78
krupan wrote: post #59

“For decades, the United States has participated in a self-defeating international tax competition, lowering our corporate tax rates only to watch other nations lower theirs in response. The result was a global race to the bottom: Who could lower their corporate rate further and faster? No nation has won this race,” Translation, "We want to have these corporations in our country so badly that we keep paying more and…

Isn't it a consensus position among economists that corporate taxation is inefficient and badly targeted? That taxes on individuals (wages, goods&services, capital gains) and on land are easier to collect and better at providing desired incentives? Really, isn't a "race to the bottom" a virtuous cycle here? Kinda weird to see Yellen -- Treasury Secretary and former Fed Chair -- making this kind of statement.

Her point is that no country can survive with zero tax. Everyone knows that. In order to have roads, schools, hospitals, parks, police, you need everyone to chip in, specially huge corporations who know how to subvert the system for their own benefit (meaning their shareholders)

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#105

Post by derefr »

coryrc wrote: post #90
cinntaile wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it may be a cowardly way to divert responsibility I don't agree that this is so bad. This problem can only be solved by cooperating, otherwise companies can just shop around for the cheapest taxation rate.

Gee, it's almost like taxing corporate profits twice has caused massive distortions everywhere: biggest stock price bubble, tax residency shopping, etc Tax the wealthy. Don't let them take "charitable" deductions or use tax-exempt IRAs. 100% inheritance tax above $4 million.

That’s what taxing corporate income (or more targeted, corporate assets) attempts to do: tax the wealthy. Because by-and-large, wealthy people don’t accomplish the things they want to do by drawing an income and then spending it; but rather by setting up corporate vehicles that have their goal as the corporate mission statement, and then getting other corporations to fund its treasury (as negotiated compensation in deals) rather than funding them personally.

Think about it like this: when I want to buy a house, I buy a house. When a billionaire wants to buy a house, they create a property management company (as a subsidiary of their existing business interests) that buys and rents out the house, negotiate for their existing business interests to fund it, and then they rent the house from that PMC.

Excess liquid assets sitting in a large corporation’s treasury, are essentially sitting in the wallets of its directors. They’re left there only because the tax implications are better if they’re moved toward their purpose-build vehicles at the last moment possible.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#106

Post by bpodgursky »

evanrich wrote: post #14
advisedwang wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxing revenue does shut off many tax loopholes. Accounting can play lots of games with profit/loss, but revenue is much harder to obfuscate. However this basically just seems like a Sales Tax to me, which we already have in most countries.

And would kill a lot of low margin businesses right?

Right, it is crazy to treat the revenue of 2% margin grocery stores the same as 50% margin SaaS products. I don't know what kind of economy these people are trying to build.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#107

Post by CrazyStat »

motohagiography wrote: post #36

The idea that politicians and bureaucracies can defer to external international conventions to be the bad-cop for wildly unpopular policy decisions - and then claim to be powerless to stop them - is anathema to democratic principles like national representation, consent of the governed, and other concepts of human rights. This proposal seems like a global group of government affiliated people colluding to fleece each…

Raising corporate taxes is generally popular, not "wildly unpopular." For example, in a recent poll 65% of Americans support raising corporate taxes [1]. This number has been fairly steady over time. It's even higher when you ask about closing loopholes that allow international tax havens, as this 15% minimum tax agreement is trying to do--70-85% support [2].

The only terrible shame here is you laundering your opinion on corporate taxes by making false claims about them being wildly unpopular.

[1] https://morningconsult.com/2021/04/07/infrastructure-corpora...

[2] https://americansfortaxfairness.org/files/Polling-Questions-...

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#108

Post by maverick-iceman »

miohtama wrote: post #12
maverick-iceman wrote: post #8

This could be the catalyst for privacy oriented coins such as Monero and Zcash. Also the right catalyst for doing away with exchanges and start buying and selling crypto on OTC type market with 1:1 deals and interactions Like it happens for grey area commodities such as marijuana and prostitution

If yo are a legit company you need to file your accounts with the government. Maybe some small funds and companies can be on a paper in Seychelles (no accounts needed) and have their Monero induced cocaine parties, but this law aims at Amazon (effectice tax rate 0%), Apple, Google, Microsoft, Netflix and sucy.

> If yo are a legit company you need to file your accounts with the government.

You don't have , you do because you are afraid of repercussions.

With a totally private coin and transaction happening off the chain....well it's not like they have any means to see what you are doing and present repercussions.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#109

Post by DevX101 »

Did a quick cross ref for the non-signatories ranked by GDP: https://pastebin.com/YyYTV65i

I'd predict corporations to move to countries on this list that are non-sanctioned, high rule of law index, and easy to do business in.

Ireland and Estonia in particular come to mind.

Re: Global minimum corporate tax: 130 nations to support U.S. proposal

#110

Post by petermcneeley »

In the limit of free flowing capital and goods this minimum is likely to also be the maximum. This will lead to a more homogenous and uniform financial situation across all countries.

A much better idea would be tarrifs. A country can tax each corporation as they see fit and what is in line with their values. They can also then have corporate or other taxes in line with their values. This would lead to a diverse menagerie of various governments and various kinds of financing. I would argue this is healthier than every country becoming the USA.

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