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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#231

Post by Aerroon »

ddalex wrote: post #142
238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

On the other hand the people in EU are happier, have better social protection, better benefits, better health systems, better consumer protection, better application of rules and laws, they make for more productive employees. Do the shareholders get as rich as fast as in the hyperactive US economy? Not, but the society functions better. I very much prefer the EU.

But how much of this social happiness is a result of riding on the coattails of the past? As the article points out: the past in Europe was great. Today's happiness is heavily influenced by yesterday. Today Europe is not as great. Will the Europe of tomorrow be as happy when the decisions made today carry the day?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#232

Post by froh »

sildur wrote: post #203
Dma54rhs wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to be employed in order to get Healthcare in most of the EU countries anyway, so it's not all that rosy as Americans tend to think.

No, that's false. At the very least, all residents are covered, regardless of their working status in Austria, Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Luxembourg, Norway, Romania, Serbia, and Sweden.

add Germany to that list.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#233

Post by singularity2001 »

laurent92 wrote: post #165
ddalex wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the people in EU are happier, have better social protection, better benefits, better health systems, better consumer protection, better application of rules and laws, they make for more productive employees. Do the shareholders get as rich as fast as in the hyperactive US economy? Not, but the society functions better. I very much prefer the EU.

In the end, one may talk about all the startups (when the BPI pumps billions into it, I sure hope there are some startups and medium companies), but EU has proven unable to build an Apple . It would be dismantled here, and CEO beaten up before reaching any interesting level. DailyMotion (French) was as big as Youtube. Many others like this. We always end up #2, and the Silicon Valley still decides what is ok to say o…

I suspect that the NSA has a role in preventing any European Apple to become too successful.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#234

Post by refurb »

onion2k wrote: post #163
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you tried to start a company there?

Why should society optimize for how easy it is to start a business?

1. Because new companies create jobs.

2. People with jobs pay taxes. As do the companies themselves.

3. Taxes pay for social safety net?

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#235

Post by kortilla »

ddalex wrote: post #142
238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

On the other hand the people in EU are happier, have better social protection, better benefits, better health systems, better consumer protection, better application of rules and laws, they make for more productive employees. Do the shareholders get as rich as fast as in the hyperactive US economy? Not, but the society functions better. I very much prefer the EU.

> they make for more productive employees.

Source? This has not been my experience at all in the tech industry.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#236

Post by mongol »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #36
Renaud wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just better worker protection. It's the whole system that has more social safeties for everyone. You might be better off with better conditions working for a top American company but you are not most people, you are part of a privileged few who had the capacity (opportunity, financial, intellectual) to be part of a a select who can enjoy this position. You're also dependent on your company to provide these b…

If you're doing well in America pretty much every system is better for you than the European counterpart. On the other hand if you're doing poorly well you can fall very far in the US system. Of the American's on Hacker News almost all of them are in the "doing well" category so the perspective is all off.

Yes buy simplified, that is like saying, if you are doing well you are doing well, and if you are doing poorly, you are doing poorly.

I think it makese sense to consider, what is your disaster scenario? What would it take to go from doing well, to not do well? For example, a crippling accident that handicaps you so you can no longer make a living doing the thing you are specialized in today. How would you fare then? This counts to me as more important than whether I can afford this or that car, and so on.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#237

Post by SOMA_BOFH »

thijsc wrote: post #221
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is a thriving tech scene in Europe please explain

Hard to know where to start! Looking at the Netherlands, where I'm from: There are many fast-growing tech companies. Both big and small. Bigger examples are Adyen and Elastic. GitLab started out here. This is a pretty nice overview, which still misses a lot: https://www.notion.so/Dutch-SaaS-Landscape-89504403a57e43f58... There are many many tech companies with 10s of millions of revenue that aren't even on this list.…

your anecdotal evidence is quite entertaining. please continue.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#238

Post by kortilla »

tsimionescu wrote: post #216
laurent92 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end, one may talk about all the startups (when the BPI pumps billions into it, I sure hope there are some startups and medium companies), but EU has proven unable to build an Apple . It would be dismantled here, and CEO beaten up before reaching any interesting level. DailyMotion (French) was as big as Youtube. Many others like this. We always end up #2, and the Silicon Valley still decides what is ok to say o…

It is easy to argue that a well functioning economy should never produce an Apple.

Do it then. Explain why we shouldn’t have Apple.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#239

Post by refurb »

coldtea wrote: post #223
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and as a result of this, you're more innovative how...?

In that we have better internet for cheaper prices than the US, for example. Between national and state debts, Trump and the Dems electing a zombie, rampant crime, police brutality 10x that of the EU, no work-life balance, average citizens that are the laughing stock of the West education wise, huge inequality, depression and the opioeid epidemic, crumbling infrastructure, the largest incarceration rate per capita in…

This reads like a rant from someone whose entire view of the US is based on Reddit posts.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#240

Post by tcoff91 »

davidgatti wrote: post #166
reader_mode wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Is there really ? I see attempts at copying the US tech scene, but a lot of it seems structured to suck money out of government funds and programs. I see very little private investment. Just recently I talked to a local VC, in a casual chat about how they started their fund I found out they pulled money out of a EU fund, they had to put up like 25% of t…

This description is UE startups in a nutshell :) Countries like Poland for example, get massive amount of money from the EU, and there are business that specialize only in getting grants for people, which then they use to make a "company" for a year or two, and when the money runs out they close it and reopen another one with the next grant. With no revenue stream idea what so ever. In this type of country's if you h…

16 hours a day of work is crazy and you don’t have to work that much to have decent money.
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