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Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

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Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Invest in the team" makes some sense when you're talking about bright people with a lame idea (RSS search engine, or whatever.) But in this case the idea isn't merely lame; it's a scam, and the team being invested in are a team of con-artists. What might they pivot to, if not another scam?

"Invest in the team" gets you Juicero. Great ambition; they raised a bunch of money. Great production; watch a tear down of the Juicero product itself, it is a mechanical work of art. Great potential; a SaaS for a fruit drink? Lots of people love fruit drinks! They can buy our packets of delicious pre-made juice, people drinking juice is a huge Billion Dollar Market™! Stupid Idea! You can just squeeze the juice out o…

> "Invest in the team" gets you Juicero.

It can get you Juicero, or it could get you Android. That's the whole thing with investing, isn't it? It's rather uncertain.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not necessarily the hard part. I mean, it's hard, but it's not the hard part. We know this because what this game is trying to do is done already a long time ago. It's a description of the original vision for Second Life. In fact Second Life was explicitly an attempt to create "the metaverse", with all user-generated content. Linden Labs used to write about the challenges they faced in making that vision real…

There are tons of examples of physics engines running on the GPU. Contact resolution (particularly between simple shapes) is an embarassingly parallel problem. I don't think it would be impossible to handle millions of collisions per frame on a modern GPU, maybe even CPU. Also, what counted as a high-end server a decade ago probably is much more affordable with today's technology. You can also probably design a scrip…

Sure, technology makes some things easier with time. But the needs for content to be optimized has not really gone away, and the issue was not necessarily overly complex 3D assets but that the very structure of what people wanted to build was difficult to optimize for. Many AAA games are set in indoor areas with no windows, because this limits how much you have to draw. In second life, almost everywhere the camera could see long distances either because you are outside or because you're inside in a room with windows. And that doesn't seem to have a really easy technological solution, although maybe Unreal's new nanite can do something about it by avoiding the need for custom LOD meshes.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#234

A rule of thumb in the games industry is that it takes $100+ Million to get a competitive MMO launched. Followed by ongoing $ for maintenance, new extensions/assets etc. The claims made by the inexperienced founders are beyond laughable. People who haven’t worked on large scale game projects have no idea how hard it is compared with your average web/biz application.

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Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#236
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think graphics rendering is really the problem — worst comes to worst, you just reduce graphical fidelity — and regardless, rendering 300 AI characters roaming around is clearly doable, and it’d be the same with viewing real players. It’s a client-side problem, and doesn’t have to really scale much with player count (Stadia’s main pitch was that you didn’t need high end PCs to play AAA games — not that it wou…

The delays, interpolation, etc. are a big problem in games like FPS, but I fail to see why they'd be a large problem in an MMO. Why can't you just send the new position of other visible players, and then client-side play those characters' walking animations to the new position from their current (client-side) position? Unless the accuracy of another player's targeting is relevant why is there a problem with their pos…

As I said, the game model changes things. One of the main issues in these discussions is that no one posts what they’re actually imagining of the MMO to be doing — and we end up talking past each other.

Anyways, with an FPS or Action RPG (anything where you can act/react quickly, then you expect your peers to do the same) low state/latency is absolutely vital.

With WoW style games you could probably get away with a LOT of interpolation before it becomes a problem (it’ll quickly become obvious as people get unnaturally tweened across the screen in straight lines, but that’s ok) largely because there’s really not much for you to be doing off-cool down anyways.

The main problem is that like RuneScape/Maplestory, in WoW supporting 200 players in the same spot doesn’t really do you anything (except for those group fights, where latency becomes important again) — towns are just glorified chat rooms, because what else are you going to do? You’re not pikmin requiring x/200 to proceed

VR chat it literally accepts that chat room aspect, and so it’s more than acceptable — it’s part of the fun

That is, you can change the gameplay to better support the issues relating to large groups. The bigger problem really is do you even want 20000 people in the same session? There’s not much to do in a crowd — in a real-world crowd you basically lose all autonomy and the crowd itself becomes the unit of autonomy with “a mind of its own”. Ultimately it’s a dumb goal to have in a non-competitive setting.

What you really want is 20000 people able to affect and manipulate the same “world” — the way we do in reality. We don’t look for everyone being there in front of you — we realize things have been changed by other people when we weren’t looking. You want object persistence and manipulation with a consistent world state, shared by thousands. Which is a much different problem — you want, really, a proper simulation.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using content from a wide variety of asset packs is a problem because it means the resulting game will be visually and thematically incoherent. You can see a lot of this already in their demo videos -- there's visible conflicts between their realistic and cartoony content, detailed vs. lo-fi, shiny vs. gritty, fantasy vs. science fiction... this all makes for a real hodgepodge of content in the game, and it's going t…

If it's going to be a hodgepodge anyway due to user-generated content, wouldn't that be another argument for not trying too hard to develop their own integrated visual theme? (Not that I think that "user-generated" content will work well. If any of it is owned, or merely claimed to be owned, by litigious copyright holders, that's a good way to get YouTube to ban gameplay videos. There goes your free advertising. I wo…

> If it's going to be a hodgepodge anyway due to user-generated content, wouldn't that be another argument for not trying too hard to develop their own integrated visual theme?

A lot of that depends on what kind of UGC they actually allow. I'm not certain whether they intend to allow users to upload their own content, or if UGC actually just means "build structures in game out of built-in assets". I suspect it's actually the latter.

> I wonder how Second Life deals with this.

In large part, through technical barriers. Second Life historically used a lot of rather idiosyncratic formats for its 3D models (like "sculpted prims" -- in short, XYZ coordinates stored in a texture), making it effectively impossible to import models which weren't created for SL. They did eventually allow users to upload meshes, but that capability is still gated behind some special permissions to prevent abuse.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's going to be a hodgepodge anyway due to user-generated content, wouldn't that be another argument for not trying too hard to develop their own integrated visual theme? (Not that I think that "user-generated" content will work well. If any of it is owned, or merely claimed to be owned, by litigious copyright holders, that's a good way to get YouTube to ban gameplay videos. There goes your free advertising. I wo…

> If it's going to be a hodgepodge anyway due to user-generated content, wouldn't that be another argument for not trying too hard to develop their own integrated visual theme? A lot of that depends on what kind of UGC they actually allow. I'm not certain whether they intend to allow users to upload their own content, or if UGC actually just means "build structures in game out of built-in assets". I suspect it's actu…

> I'm not certain whether they intend to allow users to upload their own content, or if UGC actually just means "build structures in game out of built-in assets". I suspect it's actually the latter.

The Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/playdreamworld/dreamwor...) says (emphasis mine, also highlighted in the article): "Creator centric crafting economy : Using simple tools and guided by quick tutorials, you can learn how to create your own 3D models for items that you and others might need or want in your builds and adventures. Imbue them with useful function like lighting, extra damage, low weight, knockback, and a plethora of exciting magical properties! Not artistically inclined? Import 3D models from anywhere online, and DreamWorld will help you turn them into exactly what you were looking for."

We'll see how much of this actually ships.

Thanks for the Second Life information.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#239

> You don't have to be a game developer to know that this isn't a game you can make today, even with a massive budget. And yet I played this game in the 90s. It was called Ultima Online.

Ultima Online could support millions of connected players over a peer-to-peer network? Allowing any player full access to adapt the world and create any content, of any genre, style or experience. All set across an infinite sized world?

I think it's a bit of an offense to pair DreamWorld to Ultima and the legacy of people like Raph Koster, Starr Long et al. That game had a wealth of gameplay loops, progression, deep economy, and interesting world.

DreamWorld has no design, it's just all things. A plate full of every food you like does not make a good meal.

Re: Y Combinator backed MMO metaverse game is a blatant scam

#240
post #165
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. There is Tesla and there's Therasense.

Is Therasense == Theranos? A google search returns a lot of stuff on patent litigation but no "human readable" articles

check out the coldfusion video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CccfnRpPtM ). truly another Enron
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