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I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

forum.bitcoin.org

231–240 of 319 posts

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#231
post #27

A thief can't pass good title on stolen goods: If you buy a stolen item, it is not yours, it is still the original owner's. Doesn't matter if it's a bitcoin, a car, or a quarter. The sale was not legit, it should not stand. The rest of the rollback is fuzzier, but on this gentlemans coins, a seizure should occur. http://www.lexisnexis.com/community/corpsec/blogs/bus-law-an...

The exception to this rule is a "bona fide purchaser for value without notice". If someone has no reason to believe that property is stolen and buys it, then it's their property now. So sorry. I'm still confused about whether or not bitcoin transactions are traceable. If they have deniability, it might be impossible to prove/disprove that you knew the goods were stolen. Of course, I am neither a lawyer nor a crypto s…

"The exception to this rule is a "bona fide purchaser for value without notice". If someone has no reason to believe that property is stolen and buys it, then it's their property now. So sorry."

This rule only applies in some law systems. Where I live you need both to perform all the reasonable checks and 3 years time to become the owner of the stolen property.

If the original owner shows up before 3 years have passed then you have to get back whatever you have bought. This happens even if you have performed all of the reasonable legitimacy checks.

One exception is land registration - entries in the public land register (even those obtained illegally) protect the purchasers from claims by the original owners (this does not apply to bad faith buyers.)

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#232
post #38
post #13

Although I can completely understand why this guy (the sumbitter?) disagrees with MtGox's solution, I thought it seemed perfectly reasonable. Even though MtGox never stated they'd interfere, being hacked is unexpected enough to allow some leeway with follow-up. If the flashcrash happened organically, I doubt MtGox would revert the trades.

It's not that they never stated they'd interfere, it's that they explicitly stated they would never interfere by publicly disclaiming any role as a counter-party. If they were hacked, it's their responsibility to make things right with the party that was hacked, and not interfere with anyone else's accounts/trades. Anything less does severe damage to faith in the exchange, which tends to lead people to only keep mone…

True, but I guess they don't have a spare 500000 BTC (or eight million $), so for them criticism and "damage to faith" is preferable to going out of business.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#233

The community that for months has been preaching the virtues of the currency nobody can control is suddenly arguing that a middleman should roll back a bunch of free-market transactions. I decided a while ago that arguing against the "bitcoin has no problems" crowd was futile: people are too enamored with the idea to see problems like this until they happen.

It's not a BitCoin problem, this entire episode revolves around one exchange (MtGox) and its security problems. Mt Gox Exchange =/= BTC Currency Nasdaq Exchange =/= USD Currency

Right. It's clear that this is not a problem with Bitcoin itself, but a problem with an institution built on top of it. If Mt Gox fails, other trading platforms could emerge to take its place.

Likewise the freedom from government intervention that is the point of Bitcoin does not ensure freedom from government intervention in trading platforms built upon it.

Not that I don't expect problems to emerge with Bitcoin itself...

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exception to this rule is a "bona fide purchaser for value without notice". If someone has no reason to believe that property is stolen and buys it, then it's their property now. So sorry. I'm still confused about whether or not bitcoin transactions are traceable. If they have deniability, it might be impossible to prove/disprove that you knew the goods were stolen. Of course, I am neither a lawyer nor a crypto s…

"The exception to this rule is a "bona fide purchaser for value without notice". If someone has no reason to believe that property is stolen and buys it, then it's their property now. So sorry." This rule only applies in some law systems. Where I live you need both to perform all the reasonable checks and 3 years time to become the owner of the stolen property. If the original owner shows up before 3 years have passe…

You're right in that it will vary by jurisdiction. I guess I didn't use enough caveats. :D

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#235
post #191
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There appears to be a real market demand for a currency that is not controlled by a national government, especially one that has the features of cash-like transactions. That bitcoin is lacking as an implementation is immaterial, people want it for whatever reason.

> There appears to be a real market demand for a currency that is not controlled by a national government, especially one that has the features of cash-like transactions. That bitcoin is lacking as an implementation is immaterial, people want it for whatever reason. "We must do something, {random} is something, therefore we must do {random}" is generally regarded as a fallacy.

It is the Politician's Fallacy, usually attributed to the fictional Sir Humphrey Appleby from the brilliant TV series Yes Minister.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#236
post #91
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoins are just bits on a computer and aren't physically taken away like a car or a quarter...so I don't think you can call it "stealing"

The RIAA and MPAA would disagree with you.

More relevantly, so would anyone who ever had their bank account hacked or debit card cloned...

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a BitCoin problem, this entire episode revolves around one exchange (MtGox) and its security problems. Mt Gox Exchange =/= BTC Currency Nasdaq Exchange =/= USD Currency

Out of curiosity, how big is Mt. Gox compared to the other bitcoin exchanges?

MtGox has about 90% of the bitcoin change market.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#238
post #160

There are two sides to this story. Here is Mt Gox's response: https://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20250.0

I don't get the significance of the logins. The hacker logs in every 15 minutes. What are the chances someone who makes a trade with him logs in a few minutes after one of his logins?? I'd say the odds are pretty high... and that log doesn't mean anything.

And I bet there are hundres of other users loging in at that time as well.

Re: I'm the guy who bought 259684 Bitcoins for under $3000 yesterday

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's safe to say that Kevin knew the bitcoins he purchased were not on the up-and-up.

He knew the trades were unusual, but there are also other explanations for weird trades than dumping stolen goods.

Exactly. He may have seen the unusual dumping of bitcoins as a planned crash. Someone who legitimately acquired them with the intention of doing this dumping in order to prove some point. To prove that these the account was hacked and the coins sold illegally, has anyone seen the police reports?
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