131–140 of 319 posts
I decided a while ago that arguing against the "bitcoin has no problems" crowd was futile: people are too enamored with the idea to see problems like this until they happen.
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If it was test entries in a database, then how could the OP transfer real BTC to his wallet?
I don't know how Mt.Gox arranges it's accounts, but it's possible it came from the mt.gox BTC pool?
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He stole 600+ BTC, though. And now he resents giving back the BitCoins that are supposed to be "rolled back". Not so benevolent in my opinion.
No he didn't. He withdrew them as proof of concept. Right now it's not even clear who he should give them back to. Furthermore, unless he caused the selloff there was nothing wrong with putting in his $0.0101 order. I suspect the bitter people on the bitcoin forum are the ones who had $0.01 orders in and assumed that fractional values would be rounded down the the nearest cent. They were hoping to make some easy mone…
He writes he was aware that probably the hack is causing this and decided to take advantage of it.
He should give the BitCoin back to MtGox, who would then proceed to roll back the transactions. Simple as that.
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I think you've confused title with damages. If I own something, I have legal rights enforceable on it, regardless of whether anyone else thinks it's valuable. If I owned the bitcoins -- I suspect common law would have little difficult in identifying these as distinctly ownable -- then I have enforceable rights in them. I can ask the court to order those rights be respected. Property rights in virtual property is a fa…
Ultimately, there's the way things should be and the way things are, and Bitcoin already has a stigma. Sure, it's not illegal right now, but that doesn't mean it's legal either. That's all I'm saying. Imagine the headlines: "Virtual currency used by drug traffickers stolen from users, courts play world's tiniest violin." If a drug dealer steals a kilo from another drug dealer he's not going to take it to the courts.…
As you can imagine, courts do not uphold contracts where there is an unlawful objective ("I paid him to beat my boss and he didn't!") and in most jurisdictions you cannot obtain property rights in certain things (in others you can, but asking for enforcement exposes you to criminal prosecution so in practice it doesn't happen).
Bitcoin is not a prohibited item and the exchange of bitcoins looks very much like contracts that don't have a unlawful objective.
Put another way: courts would probably enforce rights for trades made on Mt Gox, but not on Silk Road.
(IANAL, TINLA)
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Yes, what I mean is that if I was 99, I wouldn't care much about being punished for being a thief. I could therefore make a lot of people happy. If not my family, then maybe I could go Robin Hood, steal from the rich and sell cheaply to the poor. I can't imagine that it works that way. I can believe that as a buyer of stolen good without knowing they were stolen, you won't be punished. But you will still have to retu…
> If not my family, then maybe I could go Robin Hood, steal from the rich and sell cheaply to the poor. Note "for value". If the price is unrealistically cheap, the courts can point out that the buyer should have been suspicious. > I can't imagine that it works that way. I can believe that as a buyer of stolen good without knowing they were stolen, you won't be punished. But you will still have to return the stuff. Y…
What if I never even noticed it was stolen?
In fact, as the thief, why even bother with stealing? Why not just sell, say, houses on ebay that don't belong to me?
This guy doesn't really have a leg to stand on. Just like when the flash crash happened on the real stock market, transactions are going to be rolled back. One thing that has become abundantly clear from reading all of the comments on the Bitcoin forums is that the investing knowledge of most BTC traders is much less than your average equities, fixed income, or ForEx trader. MtGox is a pretty low budget operation, bu…
I had transactions in the flash crash that weren't rolled back and I lost a big chunk of cash (well, for me). I just don't see how an exchange that doesn't have builtin failsafes/circuit breakers can just roll back trades. I think that in this case, the exchange should be liable. He was just exploiting the market.
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You've misread me. You, the thief, are still on the hook for your crime. The buyer, if they really are a bona fide purchaser for value without notice, is not. Your family would probably not meet the test, as this would be the first time they've heard of the Porsches. (IANAL, TINLA)
Yes, what I mean is that if I was 99, I wouldn't care much about being punished for being a thief. I could therefore make a lot of people happy. If not my family, then maybe I could go Robin Hood, steal from the rich and sell cheaply to the poor. I can't imagine that it works that way. I can believe that as a buyer of stolen good without knowing they were stolen, you won't be punished. But you will still have to retu…
A thief can't pass good title on stolen goods: If you buy a stolen item, it is not yours, it is still the original owner's. Doesn't matter if it's a bitcoin, a car, or a quarter. The sale was not legit, it should not stand. The rest of the rollback is fuzzier, but on this gentlemans coins, a seizure should occur. http://www.lexisnexis.com/community/corpsec/blogs/bus-law-an...
You are assuming bitcoins are like a negotiable instrument. They aren't, they are much closer to bearer bonds. Whoever holds the wallet owns the bitcoins. There is no other recorded title.
It would take 21.9 years to withdraw the full amount of that account.
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> If not my family, then maybe I could go Robin Hood, steal from the rich and sell cheaply to the poor. Note "for value". If the price is unrealistically cheap, the courts can point out that the buyer should have been suspicious. > I can't imagine that it works that way. I can believe that as a buyer of stolen good without knowing they were stolen, you won't be punished. But you will still have to return the stuff. Y…
Another question: what happens if somebody steals my Porsche and sells it to somebody else, but I still have a set of car keys. One day I notice my Porsche parked on the curb, use my keys to enter it and drive away? Is it then a Schrödinger-Porsche that belongs to both me and the person who bought it off the thief? What if I never even noticed it was stolen? In fact, as the thief, why even bother with stealing? Why n…
If you had multiple sets of keys and some were stolen, then by repossessing the you are potentially a thief if the intermediate buyer was bona fide.
2. Whether or not you noticed is irrelevant, the crime was committed and the Crown or the People will take an interest.
3. Selling things that you neither possess nor own is fraud.
(IANAL, TINLA)