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Monkey MindPong

neuralink.com

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Re: Monkey MindPong

#231

Post by vsareto »

RobertoG wrote: post #211
ggambetta wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be possible to control an extra arm somehow? Or brain plasticity doesn't go that far?

The brain is very plastic, it probably would adapt at any consistent input. A most interesting question is, what would you sacrifice? Because the part that you would use to control your extra tentacle or whatever is probably currently used for something. If you are missing an arm is obvious what part of your brain you would use, otherwise, some sacrifice probably have to happen. Even reading, it seems, take the space…

I don't think we necessarily have to sacrifice something. We learn new skills and knowledge all the time. Using the new limb could be a skill. Maybe it's not as dexterous as the motor cortex and real hands at first, but there might be some benefits over natural hands.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#232

Post by mattkrause »

swordsmith wrote: post #90
mattkrause wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even outside of primary motor/somatosensory areas, 2D cursor control is a pretty standard BMI paradigm. Not exactly “Hello, World” but maybe “ToDo List App”.

I'd argue it is the "Hello, World" in any BMI lab. Assuming existing implants and electronics, and non-naive monkey, advanced undergrads should get it in a semester.

That's why I went with To Do list :-)

It's not totally trivial, but a reasonably skilled person should be able to get a not-too-janky version working with a bit of effort. (Also, where are you that undergrads get to interact with monkeys?!)

Re: Monkey MindPong

#233

Post by switchstance »

Has anyone mentioned this footage being shot over green screen and a jungle composited in the background?

Gotta love this addition to make it seem like this monkey is living the life.

"Bananas and video games in its natural habitat! This monkey is living the dream."

Re: Monkey MindPong

#234

Post by graderjs »

antattack wrote: post #225
trombonechamp wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really basic. Here is a harder task from 2015 in monkeys with only 96 implanted electrodes (Utah array): https://youtu.be/lVFWIv5lupo?t=1673 Here is a video from 2014 of someone controlling a quadcopter with their mind with zero implanted electrodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsraC04Mm8w

That's akin to saying that phones are basic since we already had desktops in the 1990s. Having 10x more electrodes that stay active for a long time, attached to self powered unit under skin with low latency wireless comm link is a major step forward.

That's what I'm saying. Exactly. I don't think it's "easier" to use 2000 electrodes in a microneural mesh.

Besides that, why the pushback? Is it coming from field experts who are like, "bah, old hat as shiny new. humbug!"; disappointed futurists who expected more ("we were promised flying cars and intelligent robotic spouses, and all we got was 2000 electrodes in our brains, and 140 characters"); misMuskists; people who sense unfairness in praises lauded upon this, in their mind, mediocre achievement, echoing to them a theme that the already-anointed and, in their view, undeserving, accrue all praise, while the genuinely meritful, themselves, for example, are overlooked, yet again?

Re: Monkey MindPong

#235

Post by zerobits »

switchstance wrote: post #233

Has anyone mentioned this footage being shot over green screen and a jungle composited in the background? Gotta love this addition to make it seem like this monkey is living the life. "Bananas and video games in its natural habitat! This monkey is living the dream."

I don’t think it’s a green screen, it appears to be a painted wall — you can see the seams and perspective to it.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#236

Post by m463 »

elil17 wrote: post #150

For those who don’t know much about this field, this seems incredible. The reality is that this a tech demo that Neuralink is using to practice the basics. For other research groups in this field, this is tech from 20 years ago. The current state of the art is humans, mostly quadriplegic people, with chips which let them control robot arms with enough accuracy to pick up small delicate objects, play games, and type b…

I would agree, with the further caveat that musk is the guy who builds the machine that makes the machine.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#237

Post by KineticLensman »

haxiomic wrote: post #198
lentil_soup wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is that really always the case? do you have some data about it I can look into? I stopped going to zoos because I didn't want to contribute to keeping animals like that, but would like to read information to the contrary if that's the case.

I imagine it depends on the zoo I’ve never been to zoos outside the UK, but here often the primary function is conservation - both of the animals, which are often rescues, and of wider wildlife which is funded by ticket sales For example, London Zoo is managed by the charity Zoological Society of London [0] and places like Monkey World are essentially rescue centres you can visit [1] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wi…

> places like Monkey World are essentially rescue centres you can visit

Can confirm this (disclaimer- I'm a supporter). Many of their animals are rescues, including more than 70 Capuchins that had been lab animals in Chile and four groups of Chimpanzees, many of whom had been rescued from use in circuses or as tourist props - the latter often with teeth knocked out so that they couldn't bite the punters. There is currently a sadly growing collection of marmosets, most rescued from the UK pet trade after tipoffs from animal protection agencies. Many of the marmosets have diseases such as rickets resulting from their owners' lack of animal husbandry skills (e.g. thinking that all they need to eat is bananas). Most of these animals lack the survival skills or health to be released back into the wild. On a more positive note, Monkey World is also a hub for breeding critically endangered species, e.g. Woolly Monkeys and Orangutans.

Sadly, if an animal is being cared for at Monkey World, it generally means that the specific individual has been abused in the past and / or the species faces functional extinction in the wild.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#238

Post by anddddd1 »

jm4 wrote: post #35

That was difficult to watch. While the technology is impressive, it is sickening to watch. The part where they can pair the phone via bluetooth made me want to vomit. It is obviously unnatural, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Something about seeing that animal, oblivious to what's happening, and that implant with the ability to directly record thoughts and/or remote control. The whole thing doesn't sit well wi…

you either test on animals, or you test on humans. simple as that.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#239

Post by tomcam »

elil17 wrote: post #221
jonplackett wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no idea these things were possible. Are they currently insanely expensive / only experimental? How available are they?

Very much insanely expensive and only experimental. The man I met had a team of like five people needed just to set the thing up and calibrate it for his "brain waves" that day (they had to constantly fine tune the neural net he used to control it because the human brain is so plastic it would change every day and become unusable after a couple days) - plus more researchers running the experiments he was doing. The t…

Not trying to be funny here: lunch with those guys must’ve been absolutely fascinating. When I worked at Microsoft a couple of decades ago we all loved the job and we talked about work even on breaks. To see the staff of the place you’re describing just hanging out must have been extraordinary.

Re: Monkey MindPong

#240

Post by ativzzz »

the_dripper wrote: post #137

I know I'm conforming to a stereotype by saying this, but I cant stop thinking about how this could be the premise of a Black Mirror Episode. I also think we should restrict such technology. Without restrictions we can play God, and I am in no way approving of doing anyhting similar to that. The part about pairing the monkeys NeuraLink Device "like you do with a speaker" made me laugh. Not becuase it's funny, but bec…

> Without restrictions we can play God

We've been playing God for about as long as human civilization has existed. Agriculture is playing God - overwriting the byproducts of nature. Medicine is playing God - overwriting natural selection.

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