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Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

nytimes.com

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Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#231

Post by zepto »

simion314 wrote: post #182
76543210 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less new equipment? But really people bought Apple products and want the company to act differently. Don't buy from bad companies and it doesn't affect you.

>Don't buy from bad companies and it doesn't affect you. Don't eat at bad restaurant and you won't get poisoned! You do not need warranty for your phone, don't buy from bad companies. We do not need safety checks for foods and medicine just don't buy from bad companies. The issue is that companies put billions into PR, so even if Apple is a bad company it has a good image and it's products are a status symbol, the co…

Yes they can - nobody is forcing anyone to buy an iPhone.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#232

Post by zepto »

76543210 wrote: post #176
zepto wrote: post #120

Do they have any data at all to support this being a net benefit or is it only ideological?

Less new equipment? But really people bought Apple products and want the company to act differently. Don't buy from bad companies and it doesn't affect you.

By data I mean - data to show that there would be less new equipment.

Easily repairable equipment could fail more often or have a shorter life on average because of the necessary design compromises.

Data could show if this is the case.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#233

Post by hermitdev »

oytis wrote: post #225
VBprogrammer wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the right to repair is about the design being specifically repairable (i.e. uses exclusively sockets and through-hole components), rather it's about avoiding things which are deliberately constructed to prevent repairing them and legal barriers to reverse engineering items in order to repair them. Examples are components which, while identical to the component requiring replacement, will refuse to work…

The "dick moves" can probably be tracked and forbidden, but IMO it's not the main reason why modern gadgets are hard to repair. Rather if you optimize for size, price, power consumption, performance, security, IP protection, development time etc., and just don't prioritize repairability, it naturally grows up this way.

Regarding cables: it would be nice if it was mandated to use an internationally recognized spec from certain designated bodies, such as IEEE.

If someone such as Apple wants to use Lightning because they find existing specs to be deficient, they should get the spec standardized before theyre allowed to implement a device using it. Specifications should ideally be unencombered by patents or for a fair and reasonable license.

Additionally implementers of a spec should be required to have their implementations verified that they adhere to the spec by an independent lab, such as UL (Underwriters Lab), and be fined into nonexistence if they forge the lab's marks.

This should also cut down on the snake oil cables, such as $90 gold plated HDMI cables.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#234

Post by kevingadd »

amelius wrote: post #222

How is the "right to repair" different from "I want access to the design documents, source code and the entire supply chain for spare parts"? Where do we draw the line?

Well, for starters we can at least draw the line so you're able, as a rule, to replace your own battery without having to find the closest Apple store (possibly hours away in some countries) and hand the device over and wait who knows how long for service...

And at that point, why shouldn't you be able to swap in a new screen if it breaks? Maybe you're not clever enough to do it yourself, but I'm sure some local small business owner can hire and train people to be experts in screen and battery replacement. Then a repair for your device is 5 minutes away instead of an hour+ and demand is spread across providers (who can compete on price and quality).

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#235

Post by hermitdev »

olivermarks wrote: post #197

I think the world wants 'right to repair', not just Europe.

Definitely. I replaced the camera on my last phone, because the lens cracked. Unfortunately, about a week after that repair, my phone fell out of my pocket while getting out of the car, and that repair was beyond my capability... I try and buy phones with a removable/swappable battery, bit those are becoming increasingly rare. I wont buy a phone without a microsd slot, though.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#236

Post by jimmaswell »

simion314 wrote: post #24
emteycz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say GDPR and cookie laws were implemented thoughtfully? (not asking if the laws themself are thoughtless)

The cookie problem we have is because the sites are actually tracking you m so maybe they should have forced to say "We are tracking you, please accept". Coockies used for actual technical reasons like to store a session ID do not need warnings. GDPR improved on that by forcing the websites to show me what are collecting and with who are sharing the data. I like this transparency, if you want to track me then tell me…

I'd rather be continuously tracked by a thousand websites and volunteer my birthday and location history to them than ever click a cookie or GDPR popup again.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#237

Post by AnthonyMouse »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #229
droithomme wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a few years. Also alarming is all the Apple crap where the hard drive, that lasts at most 2 years, is impossible to replace without great risk to the device, special replacement gaskets, etc, and when you do it turns out the original had a proprietary tempera…

> Also alarming is all the Apple crap where the hard drive, that lasts at most 2 years Source? I’ve never experienced this using even low quality hard drives. If you’re including SSDs, then between 15 to 20 Apple products over the past decade plus have not had an issue within 2 years.

This obviously depends a lot on usage. Rotational drives are sensitive to physical shocks (common for portable devices; people drop them), while SSDs have a limited number of writes. This basically makes them wear items which a well-designed device should make easy to replace -- much like the battery.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#238

Post by sjwright »

kevin2r wrote: post #214
kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

Even with Apple earbuds battery could be easily replaceable if the cylindrical part of the piece was screw-able to the top. Just like a flashlight.

Have you looked at how much stuff is packed in those AirPods? There’s certainly not enough room for a screwable cap and a consumer-safe lithium battery, while retaining rigidity and weatherproofing.

Bedsides, how many AirPods are likely to be dying from poor battery life compared to being lost, damaged or upgraded?

If this did happen, I suspect there would be more instances of people losing the battery cap, or throwing it away because of undiagnosed battery terminal faults, or of children dying because they swallowed the impossibly small pill shaped battery...

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#239

Post by andai »

kabdib wrote: post #227
amelius wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not necessarily "hot" swappable "Hot swappable" usually means you can swap it while the machine is turned on. At least, that's how people use the term when talking about harddrives.

Yeah, I mis-spoke. Swappable is better.

My laptop has that. There's a second internal battery, and you can swap the external one while it's on.

Re: Europe Wants a ‘Right to Repair’ Smartphones and Gadgets

#240

Post by m463 »

fragmede wrote: post #218
kabdib wrote: post #205

I'd like to have standard rechargeable batteries in products. Not necessarily "hot" swappable (though that would be nice for devices like cellphones). But at least available in standard forms, and replaceable by someone with a screwdriver in a few minutes. I'm sick of "renting" batteries that are permanently installed in devices that would otherwise work for tens of years, but their batteries wear out after only a fe…

How much are you willing to pay for such batteries? For larger electronics that take double A batteries, this exists, but at a premium! These things are lithium-whatever and USB rechargable, but at $5 per, easy to dismiss. While dismissing them, consider where the "those don't count" retort is coming from. It's fair to point out that electronics have gotten small enough to the point that they don't fit AA batteries a…

I remember I had a GPS device that took AA batteries, but the cells would disconnect with strong vibration.

I would imagine a battery with power wires + a legitimate connector.

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