Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably because it resonates as a real problem despite the upsides.
An easily solved problem.
Please solve it then. Start with AT&T's union. I await your results.
Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
231–240 of 1001 posts
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democracy is also a system that produces BETTER decisions. Sure tyranny can make decisions "efficiently" but that's not that great when those decisions are terrible. Democracy: Fewer macro, more micro, better decisions Command-Control: More macro, fewer micro, terrible decisions. EDIT: Another way to think of democracy is "distributed decision making" vs command-control which is "centralized decision making". When I…
I expect you're being downvoted because your statement is so obviously wrong. Democracies have consistently made horrifying decisions. Take a read through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
As have monarchies and dictatorships. So where does that leave us? The conclusions that all forms of government make horrifying decisions?
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is some of the reason they can unionize. Kickstarter produces enough surplus that the workers can get a better deal than they would otherwise. What's much more interesting is the labor status of the people who work on the Kickstarted projects.
> Kickstarter produces enough surplus that the workers can get a better deal than they would otherwise. Not really. It may be short-term better for the workers, but not likely long term as they are effectively constraining the growth of the business relative to what it would be if the union did not exist.
Depends.
The whole entertainment industry is unionized in L.A.
I know an actor from Las Vegas who moved to L.A. and got a role in a TV commercial and was surprised to see somebody else standing in front of the cameras and was surprised to find that every actor has a "stand-in" who is there so they can set up the equipment, then the real actor is fresh when he does his scene.
These costs add up, but there are many specialists who are highly productive. For instance, setting up and tearing down sets is a special form of carpentry which the average carpenter would take a change of mindset.
Union labor helps maintain a productive and talented workforce that gives L.A. a comparative advantage. Being at times the the documentarian who travels light and feels it is extravagant to have a sidekick that sets up lights it heavyweight but it maintains a world-beating quality standard.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#234Wow this really sad, provided Kickstarter is one of the nicest places to work at and their public benefit corporation was not empty words. These people ruined a really nice NYC company for everyone around. Anyone running their company who thought of making the workplace a bit different will expect the kind of crowd from this photo to show up and implode it. One thing is if the conditions were bad, there was insane ov…
Can you elaborate how Kickstarter is now ruined? As a creator and backer, this makes Kickstarter better for me. The organization as a whole is maddeningly unresponsive to me, but the workers who voted for, and organized, the union have been my strongest advocates.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#235Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union that guarantees ineffective operations, just as the absence of a union does not indicate that employees are getting shafted.
Generally speaking for well run, ethical companies, whose management actively try to do the right thing, unions add unnecessary redundancy and bureaucracy. When there is a sense of trust between employer and employee, communication flows between employees and managers, employee working conditions are safe and healthy, and compensation is reasonably fair. For companies that are shady and treat employees poorly, unions help enforce structured communication and transparency between managers and employees.
Usually I look for symptoms of bad management when hearing about employees who want to unionize. In tech, we can generally assume reasonable working conditions and pay, so Kickstarter unionizing screams “toxic management” for me, personally. I haven’t heard management’s defense, but ultimately the burden is on management to convince a majority of its employees that they don’t need a union. Clearly they haven’t, and given how easy it is to appease developers, this is particularly damning.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#236Yeah this discussion appears to have been hijacked by thinly veiled anti-union astroturfing. I would be highly skeptical of all posts in this thread. Many of the posts literally using the exact phrases commonly repeated by anti-union propagandists.
This makes me wonder if Silicon Valley is starting to see the writing on the wall and pay for disinformation campaigns in places where engineers regularly read and post. I know that there are people who share similar views to Peter Thiel within the software engineering community, but they are not the majority as you see in this thread. This is pretty shameful that this is what the Internet has become, a new medium to misinform the public. I wouldn't expect any productive conversation here.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a very strangely specific comment. I am not saying if I agree or disagree, it just seems that you had a rather specific instance. Unions don't mean anything you said above, all a union does is have a strong-arm against the "company". And gives the company a way of communicating with everyone. Unions don't make rules like what you experienced, a large amount of unneeded employees with nothing to do convince un…
This is an extremely common pattern with union practices in the US. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22that%27s+not+your+job%22+...
The search results I'm seeing for that don't seem relevant to the discussion. Did you actually have any evidence to the "This is an extremely common pattern with union practices in the US." or were you just taking a shot in the dark here to support your own bias?
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democracy is also a system that produces BETTER decisions. Sure tyranny can make decisions "efficiently" but that's not that great when those decisions are terrible. Democracy: Fewer macro, more micro, better decisions Command-Control: More macro, fewer micro, terrible decisions. EDIT: Another way to think of democracy is "distributed decision making" vs command-control which is "centralized decision making". When I…
Not necessarily. Democracy could only work effectively if most of the population is very well educated. Which is not the case, specially in under developed countries; Most of the time, the ignorance and lack of a more developed consciousness in a country citizens benefits those that are in power, as ignorant people are much easier to manipulate so that it stays that way;
> Democracy could only work effectively if most of the population is very well educated.
Certainly if you're looking at tech jobs, the "population" is reasonably well educated.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#239Is there a list of demands and laws anywhere they want to impose? There is only this: https://kickstarterunited.org/ Not a word about the standards of performance or expectations from employees who would want to be part of union. A short list of some fairly handwavy statements and a one-page website "join-join-join". Also what kind of positions do people who pushed this occupied? How many engineers have signed this?…
Literally taken from your link.
> Is there a list of demands and laws anywhere they want to impose?
"02) What are the workplace improvements Kickstarter United is seeking?"
> Not a word about the standards of performance or expectations from employees who would want to be part of union.
"Kickstarter United will be made up of all employees in the bargaining unit."
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
My experience with US unions was similar. They're just another layer of bureaucracy that is NOT required to respond to you as an individual in any way. I've had lots of poor experience with US unions protecting the lowest denominator at the expense of everyone else. They seem to focus on very specific rules that came up in specific situations applied to everything possible and end up just creating a web that is no di…
The experience I have had with UK unions is very different from this, and the other descriptions of unions in the US. I only had a few interactions with them (in a union capacity, the rep was a normal worker as well). These were things like: Getting some new equipment for the break room (kettle and mugs), pushing some new health and safety process (developed alongside the company), and then the yearly meeting, which…
It's certainly a more antagonistic relationship from what I've heard from folks in Europe. The worst part is IMO that least with my experience Union leadership is often pretty poor and despite being people who actually work those jobs, they're not very knowledgeable or capable about even the job.
It's unfortunate.