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Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

improveyoursocialskills.com

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Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#231

Post by refurb »

spodek wrote: post #44

This community consistently poo-poos MBAs and business people who, it says, don't contribute and just shuffle paper or find ways to lay people off. I felt that way when I started my first company, finishing my physics degree. I figured, I helped launch a satellite, I can do what we needed. A couple patents later, we got our first funding and I knew how to solve what problems came our way. I could break down any probl…

I had a coworker who was a social butterfly. Loved nothing more than talking to customers. She has a huge impact on the business. She had basically developed relationships with customers where she could pick up the phone and call the top physicians in the US and ask a favor - and they would always say yes. Was she good on the technical side? Not really, but she offered incredible value.

Same thing with leadership. Get people to buy into your plans in a large organization is not easy. Again, I had a colleague who was really good at it. She could basically "get shit done". Did she understand the nuances of the business really well? No. But we wouldn't have gotten anything done without her.

HN loves to harp on the technical knowledge, but guess what? That's only a part of a successful business. You might have the best product in the world, but if your customers don't know that or you can't launch it, who cares?

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#232

Post by leggomylibro »

JimboOmega wrote: post #200
altonzheng wrote: post #163

Another perspective (I learned from a therapist), is that we might already possess the innate ability to be great conversationalist, it's just performance anxiety that gets in the way. So for me, as someone who consumed loads of self-help material without much improvement, it wasn't about learning more skills or anything, it was about giving myself permission to be dumb, boring, lame, and still accepting myself at th…

It's important that this applies to virtually any endeavor, from coding to being social or dating. You are going to be dumb, lame, awkward, etc at pretty much anything you haven't done before; the only path to not being that way is to just tough it through that awkward phase.

One problem is that you aren't allowed to make mistakes in social situations anymore without facing extreme consequences, and you're right that it isn't the sort of thing you can learn by reading about it. There's really no chance for young'uns to learn in this day and age.

It's tough, and the worst part is that there's no way out or hope for things to improve. And you can't complain or seek help, or you get treated like someone who must be broken to feel that way. It's an impersonal and judgemental world that we live in today, no matter who you are or what your views are like.

No wonder so many people seem to feel that our current culture and society are so vehemently toxic that they aren't worth even trying to participate in.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#233

Post by zozbot234 »

refurb wrote: post #231
spodek wrote: post #44

This community consistently poo-poos MBAs and business people who, it says, don't contribute and just shuffle paper or find ways to lay people off. I felt that way when I started my first company, finishing my physics degree. I figured, I helped launch a satellite, I can do what we needed. A couple patents later, we got our first funding and I knew how to solve what problems came our way. I could break down any probl…

I had a coworker who was a social butterfly. Loved nothing more than talking to customers. She has a huge impact on the business. She had basically developed relationships with customers where she could pick up the phone and call the top physicians in the US and ask a favor - and they would always say yes. Was she good on the technical side? Not really, but she offered incredible value. Same thing with leadership. Ge…

> She has a huge impact on the business. She had basically developed relationships with customers where she could pick up the phone and call the top physicians in the US and ask a favor - and they would always say yes.

Yep, if you do it right, this can be of value. Building up organizational capital is a huge deal in any sort of communal enterprise. OTOH, there are also "social butterflies" in any sort of organization with no real impact to speak of - or even with negative-sum impact! And it can be hard to tell which is which (Goodhart's law again), so the incentives to do it right are also quite limited.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#234

Post by [deleted] »

wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

[deleted]

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#235

Post by beckingz »

dustingetz wrote: post #192
rollerboi wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more t…

I think you can skip #2, if you're trying to help then this is about them, it's not about you, so probably the word "I" can be removed from your vocabulary for the rest of the conversation. Algorithm for nerds is: ask questions, repeat back what you heard. Also works in sales!

If you've actually had a similar experience, that can be validating to share.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#236

Post by larnmar »

babadabada wrote: post #80
kempbellt wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code This may reflect your subjective experience, but I have had a different experience and would (kindly) give you the heads up that this is a borderline sexist generalization. I've met women in the industry that are just as capable as nerding out over new tech as I am - even if it hasn't been very common (in my experience).

I'm a young woman in tech. I am happy to confirm that "since most young women aren't exactly excited to talk about code" is in fact some sexist bullshit.

Does being sexist make it untrue?

Are truth and sexistness orthogonal axes?

If you had to choose between saying something true but sexist and non-sexist but untrue, which would you pick?

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#237

Post by dasil003 »

grawprog wrote: post #186
arthurmerlin wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least for me, I would love advice that perfectly solves all my problems. But probably this advice doesn't exist, because if it did, I would have figured it out already. I often have conversations that go like this - Me: I have this problem that sucks. Other person: Have you tried A? Me: No, I thought about that already. A isn't a good idea because of B. Other person: Well, what about C? Me: No, I thought about tha…

I've been on both sides of this. When somebody will try and help me in a situation like that, once they suggest one thing to me i've thought of or tried, i'll usually give a quick rundown of what I have tried and thought of. Doing it that way still validates them and at that point i'll usually say something like so 'I dunno what do you think, any ideas?'. Then they might give another suggestion I have or haven't thou…

The other thing is tailoring it to the individual. All of this is easier if there’s less ego on both sides. I try to operate that way generally, but everyone has their triggers. There’s no one size fits all solution.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#238

Post by bort-simpson »

rollerboi wrote: post #90
wallflower wrote: post #53

While some of you may make light of the fact that I am giving you advice, my single most important piece of advice to people who are highly analytical and/or always solving problems is to not give unsolicited advice to friends, family, acquaintances, or even strangers. People will ask for advice if they really want it. People are not “broken pieces of code” begging to be fixed. I’ve lost friends over this, until one…

I've been working on this since I noticed it in myself a few years back. It's really difficult because I'm the "problem-solver," but I'm also the person that people want to vent to. So I've come to realize - After a friend/coworker shares something that they're sad/angry about, my standard MO is: 1) Say something like "Wow, that must really feel terrible. I'm sorry to hear that!" (I always feel the need to add more t…

What I struggle with after #3 is when I get the response "I don't know". At that point I really don't know what the next steps are beside trying to come up with solutions (and that doesn't work out too well sometimes).

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#239

Post by 0xffff2 »

cwkoss wrote: post #168

I read some "pick up artist" literature in college: about two thirds of it is misogynistic garbage, but the remainder has some good tips on general platonic social interaction (and a major issue with insecure men is learning to interact with women in a casual platonic way without acting odd and creepy because they are hoping for more). - If you aren't good at speaking in a captivating way, literally write out your be…

That really has to be one of the more ridiculous ice breakers I've ever seen. I'd ascribe about as much meaning to those supposed relationships as I would to a grocery store horoscope, and in much the same way. If you're inclined to do so, you can go back as you read the explanation of what each thing "means" and pick out all of the bits you agree with to convince yourself that it makes sense.

Re: Basic Social Skills Guide (2012)

#240

Post by chalupa-man »

wisty wrote: post #43

Why are social skills always focusing on the positive? A lot of programmers often seem to be more nice guys than anything else, and need to be able to be more assertive / aggressive. Everyone tries to distinguish these two, it's mostly just in the eye of the beholder - IMO aggression is just assertion when it's judged to be inappropriate or incompetently done - a drill instructor being assertive looks different to a…

I've always thought of aggression as something qualitatively different. To me assertive behaviour is behavior in pursuit of some objective, whether or not it's sensible or effective, while aggressive behaviour is about the experience of aggression itself, not needing a goal. Things like road rage, school bullying, wrecking stadiums and yelling at players after football matches, where the behaviour isn't intended to achieve anything except the direct effects of being aggressive (expression of anger, feeling big, making others suffer or feel afraid). I would say that someone can be incompetently and rudely assertive, or quietly and competently aggressive.
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