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macOS 10.15 Vista

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Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#231

Post by jhasse »

viraptor wrote: post #149
ashishb wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WiFi, battery, and sleep. Have these problems been fixed with Linux on laptops?

Unless you buy the most recently released hardware, yeah. (For example latest ryzen has issues) Hardware and sleep pretty much works for an average consumer. Even HDR support is almost there. "Battery" is not one thing, so can't answer. Does idle draw count as an issue? Do services you can switch on/off count as a battery issue? In comparison, does MacOS indexer out iCloud sync going crazy count as a battery issue?

Latest Ryzen issues have been fixed btw.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#232

Post by pilif »

JustFinishedBSG wrote: post #195
trymas wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not long ago DropBox used to show you a fake dialog that then stole your administrator password. Wow. What the hell? Can you provide any sources to read about this more?

https://applehelpwriter.com/2016/07/28/revealing-dropboxs-di... Dropbox imitated a system dialog box in order to get your password to give itself system level permissions without asking you.

Only, it wasn’t a fake dialog. This is the normal OS sudo dialog which has API to allow the prompt text to be set by the application.

The text could have been more specific what they need root rights for and how necessary the root rights are for continued usage, but they did not fake the dialog.

It’s so hard to correct wrong information from the past. Even though discussion stemming from that article has shown that it was the system dialog, all people remember is the misinformation (albeit possibly inadvertent misinformation)

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#233

Post by pilif »

trymas wrote: post #220
JustFinishedBSG wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://applehelpwriter.com/2016/07/28/revealing-dropboxs-di... Dropbox imitated a system dialog box in order to get your password to give itself system level permissions without asking you.

Thank you. I am speechless on the behaviour from DropBox. I wonder why I have never heard of this and I do not remember any major security scandal regarding DropBox stealing your admin passwords, but maybe that information just went around me for some reason.. :) EDIT: I wonder how this was implemented, I imagine that any app, can recreate a pixel perfect dialog imitating system dialog asking for password and steal y…

It was the OS dialog which allows apps to customize the prompt text. No need to fake anything. That article was wrong.

Check the HN discussion from back in the day

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#234

Post by coldtea »

ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

>Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in

What exactly is the evidence behind this? They have been adding several huge components/APIs/tools that they have working for macOS (Metal, APFS, Swift, CoreML, etc), they have had added the Mac App Store, they have tons of under the hood improvements (e.g. memory compression), and so on.

What exactly did you expect to see, or was seeing before "Snow Leopard"?

>I know people like to knock Linux-on-the-desktop, but you know what? I can go buy a Thinkpad, spend 20 minutes putting Debian or Ubuntu on it, and it'll just work, and I'll get software updates forever.

Then don't let the door hit you on your way out.

In my experience in most definitely not "just work" except with very careful selection of laptop/peripherals, and all kind of uses cases break too, including no major creative/office apps like Creative Studio, Pro Tools, Cubase, Premiere, FCPX, MS Office, and so on, which I depend on.

And every now and then this or that project will decide to majorly break stuff in some transition... (Gnome does it, KDE does it, X/Wayland/etc does it, ...).

And I've used Linux (and several UNIX variants) since 1997, and still do professional (as a server OS) everyday, so not exactly new to the game.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#235

Post by JustFinishedBSG »

In this thread and every other threads like it: people complaining about Windows/MacOS hostile path, yet refusing to use Linux.

You know, "vote with your wallet" also means "vote by changing the products you use".

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#236

Post by JustFinishedBSG »

jiofih wrote: post #179
blub wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge step forward, because some of the bad actors that have ruined mobile by abusing every possible API to read whatever they can get their hands on are also developing for the desktop. The article is a pathological example anyway, because I got zero prompts even on my work machine. And Vista was a good step forward also back then, but people can't be bothered to take care of their data. This is why security w…

Any chance you work in corporate IT security? Sounds about right. Treat your users like dummies, maybe shove a dozen “security” dialogs in their faces, and have no qualms about disrupting their workflows or providing crappy experiences.

> Treat your users like dummies

Clearly you've never seen a "user". Dummy is tame, I would have described them differently.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#237

Post by als0 »

yabadabadoes wrote: post #207
Razengan wrote: post #122

Apple seems to be forgetting their own credo against nag-based security: https://i.imgur.com/qbUy5aH.png (from an ancient WWDC slide mocking the Windows approach.) They may have overdone it in a few cases, and not done anything where it's really needed (like a unified list of all third-party startup items, such as Google’s sneaky Keystone malware, or seeing all outgoing data and connection attempts like Little Snitch…

> Another thing I wish they would do is provide an infallible way to verify system password request dialogs. You are requesting trusted path ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_path ) for windows the ctrl-alt-delete sequence is apparently used to implement their trusted path, so it should have been designed to foreground its own active windows, minimize non trusted windows, or similar.

In my experience, Trusted path and Trusted UI tend to fail due to significant UX challenges. It tends to be quirky and require user training.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#238

Post by JustFinishedBSG »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #55
etchalon wrote: post #3

I understand this is chaos, but it's chaos because it has to be. There's no way to move users from an world of opaque "if it's an application, it can do anything it wants" to a world of "applications should ask me when they want to do something" transparency. The idea that Apple doesn't care about the Mac because it's trying to explicitly improve our privacy and security is … weird.

I expect applications to have access to my desktop. I do not need to be asked. It would be like asking permission to access my clipboard, or use my speakers, or read my keyboard. If you bombard users with dialogues for every little thing, all you will do is train them to habitually click yes . Now you have lowered security, because users will ignore the more serious warnings too. And you've wasted everyone's time in…

> I expect applications to have access to my desktop. I do not need to be asked.

You mean the place where your mom stores her confidential banking statements ?

> It would be like asking permission to access my clipboard,

You mean the place where you often copy paste passwords ?

> or read my keyboard.

You mean the place where you type your sensitive infos ?

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#239

Post by vbezhenar »

lovelyviking wrote: post #171
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

I would agree. We should be angry. Especially with news, if they are correct, that you prohibited to install linux on newer Macs. As I understood you can boot linux from external flash drive, but it's not the same as installing it on internal storage. Did someone tried to install Linux after installing Catalina, I am afraid of a few surprises there ...

AFAIU you're not prohibited, it's just matter of drivers. Apple uses some non-standard approach to disks which Linux did not implement yet and Apple does not care about Linux to add that support themselves.

Re: macOS 10.15 Vista

#240

Post by angrygoat »

Beefpro9 wrote: post #126
ohazi wrote: post #123

Maybe we should be angry? Apple has been neglecting OS X since Snow Leopard, thinking that iOS is the only thing worth investing in. Microsoft apparently agrees -- they chopped up the Windows team last year, pushing out the Windows chief and dumping the remaining re-orged husk under Azure. Just for security reasons alone, it should be terrifying that there isn't a standalone Windows group anymore. Windows hasn't been…

As of Catalina, Apple has switched the default shell to zsh and nags you when you launch bash. That said... I agree. Between this, the abysmal keyboard failure rate, and some of the user-hostile choices they've made, I've switched to a Razer laptop. Windows 10 Pro lets you avoid most of the jank, by the way. But, I'm only on it as an eventual migration path to something running XFCE (my favorite wm due to its out of…

Amazingly, the message is actually hard coded into the bash binary, rather than having been done via an rc file – so it can't be disabled in any obvious way I can see.
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