The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News • Hacker News Board

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#231

Post by afarrell » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #201

dunkelheit wrote: post #147

I guess it is a perfect opportunity to thank dang and sctb for their unobtrusive and friendly moderation efforts. The article itself was a bit disappointing because it focused on political issues. In my opinion the strength of HN in this regard is that it is both a "sjw cesspool" and a "haven for alt-right", as evidenced by the fact that a comment on a controversial topic can easily float near zero points while rakin…

This is actually my sole complaint with HN. I love the community and I understand where the moderators are coming from, but I feel that it's important to point out that the position of "keep politics out of $X" is the purest expression of privilege, and in general is an attitude that embraces the status quo, no matter how horrifying it might be for the unprivileged. I'm not saying HN should allow ALL political discus…

Something can be both an expression of privilege and a very good idea.

Example: The advice to get at least 8 hours of sleep at a regular time each night. This reflects:

- the economic privilege of not needing to do irregular shift work

- not having a chronic disease which interrupts sleep

- not being a parent

- having a regular place to sleep at all.

However, it is still a good idea for one’s physical and mental health.

Likewise, a community might reasonably decide that certain political discussions are too acrimonious to have productively. Even if this decision reflects privilege, it might be the only decision under which the community could survive without rupturing.

I feel inclined to agree with your second paragraph, but just don’t know if such discussions are actually productive.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#232

Post by danaos » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

> In April, when a story about Katie Bouman, an M.I.T. researcher who helped develop a technology that captured the first photo of a black hole, rose to the front page, users combed through her code on GitHub in an effort to undermine the weight of her contributions.

Hmm. I guess citation needed?

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#233

Post by ideasRgood » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #201

dunkelheit wrote: post #147

I guess it is a perfect opportunity to thank dang and sctb for their unobtrusive and friendly moderation efforts. The article itself was a bit disappointing because it focused on political issues. In my opinion the strength of HN in this regard is that it is both a "sjw cesspool" and a "haven for alt-right", as evidenced by the fact that a comment on a controversial topic can easily float near zero points while rakin…

This is actually my sole complaint with HN. I love the community and I understand where the moderators are coming from, but I feel that it's important to point out that the position of "keep politics out of $X" is the purest expression of privilege, and in general is an attitude that embraces the status quo, no matter how horrifying it might be for the unprivileged. I'm not saying HN should allow ALL political discus…

I find legitimate questions that contradict the mods ideas are flagged.

Are there better sites? This one is popular but not good.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#234

Post by krapp » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #170

How do you know their names, how do you know there are only 2? One of the problems for me about HN is the secretive nature of moderation.

>One of the problems for me about HN is the secretive nature of moderation.

I agree some aspects of moderation here are too opaque. While the mods will mention to users that they're about to be banned, or warn them about their behavior, this can take place enough after the fact that it's unlikely the comment will be read. Also, flags on your account, such as the loss of vouching or flagging privileges, or being slow-banned (as my account currently is,) aren't always apparent.

What might be useful is a message queue from moderators that appears on your account. This would not only make certain that users were aware of penalties to their account, but it would sequester discussion about it away from the primary threads.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#235

Post by lobotryas » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:56 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #201

dunkelheit wrote: post #147

I guess it is a perfect opportunity to thank dang and sctb for their unobtrusive and friendly moderation efforts. The article itself was a bit disappointing because it focused on political issues. In my opinion the strength of HN in this regard is that it is both a "sjw cesspool" and a "haven for alt-right", as evidenced by the fact that a comment on a controversial topic can easily float near zero points while rakin…

This is actually my sole complaint with HN. I love the community and I understand where the moderators are coming from, but I feel that it's important to point out that the position of "keep politics out of $X" is the purest expression of privilege, and in general is an attitude that embraces the status quo, no matter how horrifying it might be for the unprivileged. I'm not saying HN should allow ALL political discus…

Not all places need to support discussion of politics. If you want to discuss the intersection of tech and politics you have many options to go to without bringing that stuff here.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#236

Post by jsperson » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #201

dunkelheit wrote: post #147

I guess it is a perfect opportunity to thank dang and sctb for their unobtrusive and friendly moderation efforts. The article itself was a bit disappointing because it focused on political issues. In my opinion the strength of HN in this regard is that it is both a "sjw cesspool" and a "haven for alt-right", as evidenced by the fact that a comment on a controversial topic can easily float near zero points while rakin…

This is actually my sole complaint with HN. I love the community and I understand where the moderators are coming from, but I feel that it's important to point out that the position of "keep politics out of $X" is the purest expression of privilege, and in general is an attitude that embraces the status quo, no matter how horrifying it might be for the unprivileged. I'm not saying HN should allow ALL political discus…

If there's one privilege that I will never feel guilty about taking advantage of, it's the ability to listen to and engage in discussions with folks smarter than I am with the overloaded concept of political belief removed.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#237

Post by chuckgreenman » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #201

dunkelheit wrote: post #147

I guess it is a perfect opportunity to thank dang and sctb for their unobtrusive and friendly moderation efforts. The article itself was a bit disappointing because it focused on political issues. In my opinion the strength of HN in this regard is that it is both a "sjw cesspool" and a "haven for alt-right", as evidenced by the fact that a comment on a controversial topic can easily float near zero points while rakin…

This is actually my sole complaint with HN. I love the community and I understand where the moderators are coming from, but I feel that it's important to point out that the position of "keep politics out of $X" is the purest expression of privilege, and in general is an attitude that embraces the status quo, no matter how horrifying it might be for the unprivileged. I'm not saying HN should allow ALL political discus…

There's a time and place for that stuff though, if all of a sudden you start bringing up politics during your local Arduino project meetup you can't be surprised if they stop inviting you.

Hacker News sort of splits between technology and politics so drawing a line is a bit tricky.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#238

Post by 481092 » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

jonathanwallace wrote: post #223

FussyZeus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually my sole complaint with HN. I love the community and I understand where the moderators are coming from, but I feel that it's important to point out that the position of "keep politics out of $X" is the purest expression of privilege, and in general is an attitude that embraces the status quo, no matter how horrifying it might be for the unprivileged. I'm not saying HN should allow ALL political discus…

Politics, IMHO, are about applied relationship and applied power. Ignoring the discussion of both relationships and power leads to an anemic understanding of freedom and what it takes to enable it which leaves us unbalanced and brittle as a civil society. The exercise of this privilege is a systemic, cultural mistake and the tendency of conversations to often devolve into tribalism highlights our lack of sophisticati…

You could say the same of knowledge also as it is a power and one applied and accrued by relationship; by what material one reads, by whom and from which source it is linked from and to. Academics of various groups tend to have their own sort of tribalism. I think the mods came to the correct conclusion that politics, although annoying as hell sometimes, is a fabric of society which is nigh impossible to shed when discussing just about anything.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#239

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #210

vorpalhex wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take money to join protests. It doesn't take money to volunteer, even if it's just maintaining a newsletter or occasionally seeking donations for your local org. It's very easy to throw stones from afar when you've never been in the trenches. Those who don't do often make unreasonable demands because they have no connection to the reality of the situation of actually getting a thing done.

> It doesn't take money to join protests. Travel expenses, taking time off work, food and drink, accommodations... > It doesn't take money to volunteer, even if it's just maintaining a newsletter or occasionally seeking donations for your local org. Many activists do those things , though. They're still dragged through the mud for "not doing enough" or "just talking." > It's very easy to throw stones from afar when y…

> Travel expenses, taking time off work, food and drink, accommodations...

Most protest organizers can set you up with a free bus ticket if you reach out to them and are in a reasonable bus distance. Your city may even have discount bus tickets already available if your protest is happening at a government building (which is an ideal place to protest). There are people at protests who go not for any protest cause itself, but to make sure people get water and don't die from heat stroke. Fill a water bottle before you go.

No, going to protest on the cheap won't get you an airplane ticket and a free lunch. Pack a sandwich if you want to eat. If you can't afford that, ask your fellow protestors for some crackers or something. Remember that your fellow protestors are on your side, and will actually help you.. if you ask them. They're not psychic.

> I've never flown a helicopter, but when someone puts one in a tree I can still say "dude fucked it up." and be correct.

Can you? What if it was a SAR helicopter that was given bad flight relay information and got caught in a storm? Helicopters sometimes crash, and it's not always the fault of the pilot.

> but when the topic at hand is decidedly uncivil, for example taking people's children and imprisoning them at the border, then I believe an uncivil response is warranted.

It's possible to disagree with a situation, be civil, and take time to understand it. I've spoken to the people who work in those "prisons" with children, and most of them are dramatically against the wall, but also recognize when a kid who is 8 shows up at an international border alone, they need to go somewhere.

Again, that doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but throwing stones at the people who are at least trying to help isn't productive.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#240

Post by waterhouse » Thu, Aug 08, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

astine wrote: post #193

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree with what you're saying. But I'm asking why the person posting believes that the HN community overwhelmingly believes X and their evidence for that. I presume they do have evidence and conclusions and I'd like to know about it.

I think that people tend to perceive HN as overwhelmingly believing whatever the opposite of their opinion is any time there is a significant debate on something. Unless there is overwhelming support for our own position, we feel that we are in a hostile environment.

Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect