Live data from Hacker News

Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

support.apple.com

231–240 of 252 posts

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? You just resign the binary with your key.

I'm sorry, this is totally off-topic but I had to re-read your comment 5 times until it became apparent that you meant re-sign, not surrender. English is funny sometimes (especially when you're not a native speaker like me:) ).

It's a good point; I'll keep it in mind when using the word in the future :)

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#232
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've moved on to Windows since last year. Besides terminal emulators being shit (which they're fixing now), worse PDF support and shit OS config management, there's really not much anymore that goes in favor of Macs. Their laptops are worthless junk at 40% markup, the OS gets buggier and more locked down with every version while Windows is on a clear trajectory of improvement and PC hardware gives real choice and inn…

Those seem like pretty big downsides to me, and I don't believe the new terminal marketing gimmick. I will admit Windows has been very attractive lately for gaming reasons, but from a development standpoint, MacOS still seems way ahead of Windows. I seriously considered it, but there would be too much I'd miss if I switched. There's some minor reasons too, like why does IntelliJ look ugly in Windows? It looks great i…

Re: IntelliJ looking bad on Windows, I do know that JetBrains IDEs are still stuck on using GDI for drawing fonts rather than the new DirectWrite protocol. The poor quality of GDI (especially on high DPI displays) is very noticeable when you switch from Linux or macOS to a Windows app that uses it. I looked it up a while ago, and as I recall it was an issue with the Java runtime that JetBrains IDEs use.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Homebrew? You can't tell me that Microsoft is able to ship entire distribution's userlands (Debian, Ubuntu, SUSE, and more) through the Windows Store, including all their GPL3 components, and Apple can't figure out how to ship an updated version of base64. If I'm grumbling, it's just because making devops/CI scripts work on Windows and Linux is easier than MacOS and Linux these days because my colleagues run into…

I've moved on to Windows since last year. Besides terminal emulators being shit (which they're fixing now), worse PDF support and shit OS config management, there's really not much anymore that goes in favor of Macs. Their laptops are worthless junk at 40% markup, the OS gets buggier and more locked down with every version while Windows is on a clear trajectory of improvement and PC hardware gives real choice and inn…

Out of curiosity, has Windows improved in any way from a low maintenance perspective?

The reason I switched to Mac in 2006 was that I ended up using a friend's Mac for a month while abroad so I could get some work done. When I got back to a place where I could get a new Viao at a reasonable price it occurred to me that I hadn't been fighting with the Mac a single time. Wifi always worked, everything I plugged into it just worked as well, the software I ended up installing just worked too, Apache and SVN ran fine, there was a good Terminal app out of the box, etc. This was in stark contrast with the decades long experience I had had with PCs until then. On any given week I had been invariably spending between a half-hour and a day fighting with Windows in some way or another. Which could mean trying to figure out why Wifi or some random printer didn't work, looking for drivers, reinstalling or reconfiguring some piece of software, and so forth. Has this improved materially since the past decade?

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#234
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no Windows fan, but Windows 10 is the first where I don't actively hate the window manager. Well, I do hate how it keeps moving all my windows to the left side of the desktop. Not sure why that is happening. So I guess I hate something different about it now.

You mean it's snapping to the left half after some action? That would probably be when you press Windows+Left-Arrow, happens to me sometimes when I try to do Ctrl-left for example.

It's generally when I unlock the screen after waking up. I have no idea if I accidentally pressed Windows+Left, but it's doing this very consistently.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#235
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean it's snapping to the left half after some action? That would probably be when you press Windows+Left-Arrow, happens to me sometimes when I try to do Ctrl-left for example.

It's generally when I unlock the screen after waking up. I have no idea if I accidentally pressed Windows+Left, but it's doing this very consistently.

sounds a bit like a driver issue, like it changes the screen resolution during wake-up. you should figure out whether it's the exact size used for half-pane snapping (which sounds like userland issue), or whether it's some other size.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest problem with Windows is that you can't scroll in a window or a pane without clicking on it first. Both Mac and Linux support that and it makes the OS feel so clunky.

But in MacOS, typing doesn't follow the mouse by default. So you're scrolling away in a window you don't realize is inactive. Then go to close a tab or type and you've just closed a tab in a random application two monitors away. And it can be hit-or-miss whether you realize which application you just interacted with (or where you just inserted characters into your code).

Ugh this happens to me all the time, but on the other hand I'll sometimes be scrolling through a pdf with my trackpad, but typing in a pane on the left, so I do find it quite useful to have that split between kb/pointer focus.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#237
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I'm hesitant to respond to you because of the level of spittle-flecking you're doing in this thread but I would guess that, by virtue of bash being the standard Mac shell and zsh being a close-enough-but-better replacement, the necessary learning has already happened and overwhelmingly more Mac terminal users will be at least functional with it immediately.

Not the OP, but I agree with both of you actually. It's easier in many ways to run a POSIX-compliant shell with a more "familiar" scripting language to bash users (especially when it comes to running existing scripts or one-liners you find online).... buuuut at the same time I think it's pretty clear that fish's scripting language is much more modern and "better" in many ways.

I don't write shell scripts for nontrivial things and it's rare that I see a good reason to, so I'm not sure that moves the needle much. It's 2019, we have other scripting tools, etc.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#238
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's generally when I unlock the screen after waking up. I have no idea if I accidentally pressed Windows+Left, but it's doing this very consistently.

sounds a bit like a driver issue, like it changes the screen resolution during wake-up. you should figure out whether it's the exact size used for half-pane snapping (which sounds like userland issue), or whether it's some other size.

I don't think it's the size for 'half-pane snapping'. It seems a faulty screen resolution change on wake-up might indeed be my problem.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#239
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been building software with Homebrew for ages, where does signing come in?

The default bash on macOS is protected using SIP. Files covered by SIP can only be replaced by Apple-signed updates. (Of course, one could disable SIP altogether.)

The bash4 from homebrew is installed to a different place to the system bash, and even when you switch to it as your login shell the system bash is still accessible. The homebrew design is never to overwrite system programs but to have same named alternatives higher in $path.

Re: Use zsh as the default shell on your Mac

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't think of a single rational cause for requiring code signing by default other than them wanting to lock down the system? It's a huge security gain for normal users, and helps application developers by encouraging normal users to trust third-party applications rather than being terrified they'll get malware if they install any non-apple software. It's certainly possible that Apple has intentions other than to…

I can't think of a single (non-malicious) rational cause for requiring code signing by default and making the requirement impossible for the user to disable . We're talking about what Apple could be planning that would violate the GPLv3. As long as the signing can be disabled by the user, there shouldn't be a GPLv3 violation.

If there were a simple checkbox in the OS to disable SIP, I would expect zillions of ‘nice’ add-ons would ship with instructions on how to disable it.

I also expect zillions of helpful nieces/nephews would flip that checkbox for their uncles/aunts, and, accidentally or on purpose, leave it that way.

Even if that isn’t true, making it harder for malware to flip that flag already is a rational reason to implement it this way.

Post reply on HN