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San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

nationalreview.com

231–240 of 312 posts

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#231
"“Where I grew up, no one would walk past a person collapsed on the side of the street on their way to work and not do something about it. I hope I never get used to the fact that that happens in San Francisco.”"

Oh, just stop.

I have lived, full-time, in many, many cities in the United States and nobody - not the good Lutherans in Minneapolis nor the heirs-of-cowboys in Denver nor the tanned youth in San Diego nor anyone in NYC or DC - is stopping to attend to a filthy, passed-out drunk slumped over in the middle of a sidewalk.

The people (that I live and work with) in San Francisco are a lot of things but they're not monsters and I imagine they compare, roughly equivalently, to whatever golden locale Sam Altman grew up in.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the south, lived all over in urban and rural areas. Urban areas were the most racist (seemingly out of fear in most instances) by far. It's not overt either; the passive-aggressive stuff is real. Rural area racists seemed to be just uneducated/full of bad info on the most part, but also more vocal. I've also encountered more racists in the northeast than anywhere else (maybe they think I am too because of my…

> Urban areas were the most racist This the most unexceptional, unoriginal wrong talking point that always comes up in these conversations. I've heard it my entire life growing up in the south, and it constantly betrays the OP's actual experiences when dealing with this matter. It's a southern apology. And a really dumb one at that, fueled by a bitter "us vs. them" mentality ripe everywhere in the south. There is abs…

I assume that's from your vast firsthand experience?

I already said I was no expert, and described my own experiences.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#233
post #162
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived here for 20 years, I can say things are a great deal better than they were before the Downtown tech explosion that happened 10 years ago. Market was filled with pushers you would only now only see on 6th St, and I literally saw a drive-by shooting (resulting in murder) on Mission at 19th (Beauty Bar). Both of those things are unthinkable today. I feel like people are forgetting how bad things use to be.…

I lived there ten years ago, too. You’re remembering selectively. Yes, the Mission has gentrified and mid-market is a bit cleaner. But now there are widespread homeless camps, and open defecation and needles (formerly isolated to certain neighborhoods) are everywhere. And it’s not as if the Mission crime has gone away - it’s just further south now. Property crime is up; even in SOMA, broken car windows were an occasi…

In my observation, this argument, at best, is only describing things as marginally better than pre-2010 build up. But fear not: SF is a Gold Rush town that rises and fades 10x to the rest of the nation during every economic build up. It's not "tech", it's just the way our central banking system works.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#235
post #65
post #30

The author draws a very unsubtle if not direct line between housing costs and homelessness. Is there any? I was under the impression that most of the homeless are mentally ill and/or transplants from other areas. What percent of them just can't afford the rent?

I had a coworker ask me if there’s any chance that losing everything you’ve ever held dear and being forced to live in such a scary environment might lead to some of what we perceive as mental illness. I think he’s onto something. The effects of trauma are lasting and real and I’d imagine there’s a healthy amount of trauma being created in homeless encampments. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-tr…

Its not really "what we perceive as mental illness", it's just a mental illness. It doesn't have to have an innate biological component to be a mental illness.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#236
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A black friend of mine lived in Savanah, ATL, NYC and in the Midwest. She said that you find just as many racists everywhere, but she “appreciates” the (urban) Southern racists ones more because they don’t try to hide, so she knows where she stands.

> but she “appreciates” the (urban) Southern racists ones more because they don’t try to hide, so she knows where she stands. I've heard this exact statement in a Dave Chappelle standup bit. I've always taken it to mean that bigots in some areas are simply familiar enough with the area's politics, history and justice system to feel comfortable saying openly bigoted things without fear of repercussion.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#237
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a National Review opinion article offered as a news piece What? National Review doesn't do news, it does opinions. And it's pretty upfront about being conservative.

People cite them as news precisely because they don't clearly label themselves as an opinion provider. You're going to have a hard time convincing me that the word "opinion" never occurs on their site or printed media by accident.

First sentence in the NR website FAQ.

National Review was founded in 1955 by William F. Buckley Jr. as a magazine of conservative opinion.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#238
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some are "negatively" prejudiced (racists), some are positively prejudiced (~progressives). Very few people in my experience are able to think about this topic in a purely rational and non-emotional manner.

If everyone was racist we'd be living in apartheid. Frankly, there is no political coalition willing to push apartheid because a plurality of people aren't as racist as some people in this thread seem to think.

What if there was a system that achieved the same effect as apartheid, without requiring an actual apartheid law? Do you think that would be better or worse?

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#239
post #30

The author draws a very unsubtle if not direct line between housing costs and homelessness. Is there any? I was under the impression that most of the homeless are mentally ill and/or transplants from other areas. What percent of them just can't afford the rent?

This is a popular myth. https://www.sftu.org/2018/06/five-myths-about-the-homeless-p... According to that, 71% of people on the streets of SF used to be homed, and aren’t on the streets due to drugs.

This, and other statistics like it, are really disingenuous and framed for a very specific interpretation. Here is the actual quote from the article (strikethrough is in the original - not sure why - maybe a bad stat ?):

"The vast majority of the people who are homeless today used to be housed – in San Francisco. According to the city’s 2015 homeless count, 71 percent of the people on the streets were living in San Francisco when they lost their housing. That means seven out of ten homeless people used to be your neighbors – before the tech boom and the eviction epidemic. "

So the presentation here is that average-joe-normal-churchgoer was minding his own business as a lifelong SF resident and was then evicted by an evil landlord, so his apartment could go to a techie, which sent him into a downward spiral to homelessness.

I have not done independent research into this myself, but I have a suspicion that the actual narrative is something like:

"borderline mentally healthy individual moves to San Francisco because it's interesting and fun and romantic (and warm) and, while still on their meds, manages to rent a room or an SRO or something, lives there for a month or two or six, runs out of either money or meds or familial support (or all three) and suffers their financial/emotional/mental breakdown here, on our streets, far from any support or family they have, if they had any at all."

If this suspicion is correct, it doesn't imply we shouldn't be compassionate or helpful or progressive in our responses, but it does suggest that we are importing problems and should consider how we might limit that tendency.

It also does not place some kind of moralistic "maybe they shouldn't be doing drugs in the first place" judgement on people - at the end of the day it is indeed a mental health issue. Just maybe it doesn't need to be our mental health problem.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#240
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe 1/2 of my friends from college live in SF. I have a huge social network here. Objectively the city is not awesome, but I can't imagine moving somewhere else and starting from scratch. Lots of tech workers are in this situation IMO.

Isn't it normal to graduate college and move to another city for a job? I've never heard of anyone wanting to stick around the same city as their college friends before. Granted the Bay Area is a tech hub so that's a reason to stay if you're in the industry but living in a new city on your own is definitely an experience most people should have.

Only 25% of US adults have a bachelors degree. Of the 25% of those with bachelors degrees, the large majority come from regional public schools, think "Cal State Sacramento", or "Northern Illinois University". Graduates of these types of schools often grew up within 2 - 3 hours of their university, and after school the majority end up in the largest city within a 2 - 3 hour drive of their university. If you didn't get a degree, you're much more likely to live close to where you grew up.

If you went to a top school (top 25 - 50 in USNWR), then your social circle was much more "mobile" than average.

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