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San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

nationalreview.com

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Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#191

Post by freyir »

rib3ye wrote: post #138
dawhizkid wrote: post #10

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

Having lived here for 20 years, I can say things are a great deal better than they were before the Downtown tech explosion that happened 10 years ago. Market was filled with pushers you would only now only see on 6th St, and I literally saw a drive-by shooting (resulting in murder) on Mission at 19th (Beauty Bar). Both of those things are unthinkable today. I feel like people are forgetting how bad things use to be.…

Murder is down, but non-violent crime (burglary, theft, car break-ins, vandalism) is way, way up. San Francisco now has a higher property crime than any large city in the United States. Literally the worst in the nation.

Not to mention, the trash, used needles, and human feces now covering the city.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#192

Post by rchaud »

sbzodnsbd wrote: post #66
atom-morgan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it that so much aggressive political rhetoric related to race and the tech industry is coming from this area if there are very few African Americans there in the first place? I live in Atlanta where the minority population is much higher all around and I don't get the sense at all that there's rampant racism or discrimination. Is this problem unique to the Bay Area or is this largely white guilt?

A black friend of mine lived in Savanah, ATL, NYC and in the Midwest. She said that you find just as many racists everywhere, but she “appreciates” the (urban) Southern racists ones more because they don’t try to hide, so she knows where she stands.

> but she “appreciates” the (urban) Southern racists ones more because they don’t try to hide, so she knows where she stands.

I've heard this exact statement in a Dave Chappelle standup bit. I've always taken it to mean that bigots in some areas are simply familiar enough with the area's politics, history and justice system to feel comfortable saying openly bigoted things without fear of repercussion.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#193

Post by [deleted] »

KirinDave wrote: post #133

This is a National Review opinion article offered as a news piece (as they are wont to do). It features a seamless conflation of SF's problems with Silicon Valley's somewhat corrosive lobbying effects on the urban expansion problems of SF, as if they're the same thing. It suggests that San Francisco's housing problem is NOT directly at the feet of the folks who own the majority of the property, and instead implicates…

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#194

Post by mercutio2 »

atom-morgan wrote: post #22
dawhizkid wrote: post #10

Having lived in SF for a number of years now, I 100% agree that SF is just dystopian as hell. Trash everywhere downtown, human feces/needles/smell of urine all over downtown & SOMA, depressing mix of aggressive and zombie-like homeless, very few kids/families, very few minorities (especially African-Americans), barely functioning public transportation system, high rents forcing six-figure earners to live with 2 roomm…

How is it that so much aggressive political rhetoric related to race and the tech industry is coming from this area if there are very few African Americans there in the first place? I live in Atlanta where the minority population is much higher all around and I don't get the sense at all that there's rampant racism or discrimination. Is this problem unique to the Bay Area or is this largely white guilt?

Hmm. A few points.

1) I don’t know what “aggressive political rhetoric” is, but it comes off as being dismissive of political opinions you disagree with

2) SF the city is a small part of the SF Bay Area. There are lots of black folks living near SF

3) Be very careful making projections about racism from your experience of Atlanta. Atlanta is the catch basin for successful black business for a large fraction of the south. I was born in Atlanta, and was really surprised when people would describe the south as racist, because my experience of race in Atlanta was so positive. But you don’t have to get very far out of the city to experience poorly concealed racism.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#196

Post by [deleted] »

wccrawford wrote: post #157
sbzodnsbd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A black friend of mine lived in Savanah, ATL, NYC and in the Midwest. She said that you find just as many racists everywhere, but she “appreciates” the (urban) Southern racists ones more because they don’t try to hide, so she knows where she stands.

I have to wonder... Do all the southern racists hide it less... Or are there so many blatant racists that the coy ones are a lot harder to detect? I'm sure there are plenty of racists everywhere, but I do find it hard to believe that there aren't more percentage-wise in the south.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#197

Post by viscanti »

zenkat wrote: post #20
_jal wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they would enact a land-value tax and establish a redistributive policy They can't bring themselves to mention Proposition 13, somehow.

Prop 13 isn't really in the control of SF city residents. But damn, California ... time to put that wealth-transfer tax for the old, rich, landed elite to bed already.

They've made millions from the appreciation of their houses, but they are still active in preventing new housing to try to juice their returns even more. It's a problem of how many Americans see their house as their biggest investment (and if you were a granny who bought in California 50 years ago it likely is). So naturally these wealthy landowners who bought property decades ago are going to fight to preserve their investment, but like the article points out, they're actually slowly killing their investment.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#198

Post by mistermann »

bilbo0s wrote: post #190
wccrawford wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder... Do all the southern racists hide it less... Or are there so many blatant racists that the coy ones are a lot harder to detect? I'm sure there are plenty of racists everywhere, but I do find it hard to believe that there aren't more percentage-wise in the south.

I think you're asking the wrong question with the "more" or "less" type thinking. My own view is that everyone is prejudiced. But people are different. Some are prejudiced and loud mouthed. Some are prejudiced and liars. Some are prejudiced and just quiet. But everyone is prejudiced, so does it matter if one is more loud than the other? I mean, if you go into a room full of pregnant high school girls, sure, some are…

Some are "negatively" prejudiced (racists), some are positively prejudiced (~progressives). Very few people in my experience are able to think about this topic in a purely rational and non-emotional manner.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#199

Post by fatnoah »

diab0lic wrote: post #69
asveikau wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very few kids/families, I am raising my kids here and disagree with your assessment. There is a pretty good community of families here.

That's all well and good that you disagree, but SF has 13.4% persons under 18 compared to the national average of 22.6% [0]. There are very few kids / families. [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/sanfranciscocit...

Agree that good community doesn't necessarily equal large community. I live in Boston, which I believe is somewhere around 17%, and in the central neighborhoods I lived in, percentage of households with families was < 10%. Despite being small, it was a "good" community in that you got to know many of the other families in the neighborhood, I coached local sports, etc. It didn't feel small because of the density of the area AND people were generally on foot or transit and not driving. Running into a family we knew was a daily occurrence. All of those things contributed to making a small population feel much better.

Re: San Francisco’s Slow-Motion Suicide

#200

Post by tmh79 »

dawhizkid wrote: post #32
atom-morgan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it that so much aggressive political rhetoric related to race and the tech industry is coming from this area if there are very few African Americans there in the first place? I live in Atlanta where the minority population is much higher all around and I don't get the sense at all that there's rampant racism or discrimination. Is this problem unique to the Bay Area or is this largely white guilt?

SF used to having a thriving black population. It has declined for decades due to exclusionary housing policies that have forced low/middle income earners out of the city, which disproportionately affects minorities. But to you question, diversity in tech has little to do with the ethnic makeup of the Bay Area. This is a transient town...people come here to work from all over and it's a completely separate issue.

"This is a transient town...people come here to work from all over and it's a completely separate issue"

While true, this elides over a pretty large issue with minorities in tech. In general, the "transient after college" phase, where high potential students move to high potential areas is a privileged position that most people aren't able to participate in for many reasons. Maybe its because your parents (or brothers/sisters/nieces/nephews etc) are struggling and you need to take care of them day today, maybe its because you already have student loans up to the hilt and feel that living at home is a less risky proposition than moving across the country to a place where rent is going to be 2x the size of any paycheck you've ever received, maybe its because you feel the community you come from needs you more than you need a tesla. In general, the types of people who have these types of issues that drive them not to migrate are going to be high performing, but lower wealth, and thus on balance more likely to be non-white all else being equal. IMO, a great way to help make "tech" a more diverse industry would be to open offices in Atlanta, a city with a large black population, and a very good university.

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