Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment • Hacker News Board

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#231

Post by danans » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #155

rchaud wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you're using cliched "conservative" meme tropes like "basket weaving" indicates you're not interested in having a non-ideological discussion about this. As of 2016, the most common bachelor's degrees in the US were in the areas of business and healthcare [1]: [1]: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d17/tables/dt17_322.10.a... From the table in the link: Business - 371,694 Health Professions - 228,896 P…

Basket weaving isn't a "conservative meme". It may have once been (in a time before memes) but that phrase is in common usage as equivalent to "any degree of little to no value".

It was never a conservative meme, and it isn't one now. It's just a stupid over-generalization today, as it was in the past, regardless of the politics of the person who uttered it.

Nonetheless, the parent posts' point and evidence still stands, that the largest groups of degrees granted are in subjects of value.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#232

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

Traster wrote: post #10

The obvious point to make is that American student loans already suck so this may be an alternative. However, this makes me feel really uncomfortable. The first is the same reason as student loans: At the age you're agreeing this you are very unlikely to correctly judge your own value. It's the same reason why students take on ridiculously onerous student loans. The solution to that problem in my mind though is to re…

Even then, there is a lot of risk... how many will fallout, not finish or otherwise live in their parent's basement for a portion of the time?

In the end, you're agreeing to a sliding scale based on salary. Those financing are definitely having an interest in your field of study and the duration for completion.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#233

Post by throwaway082729 » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

SkyBelow wrote: post #143

llamataboot wrote: post #101

Let's scale this up huge, let everyone take part, and have all of society invest in education and reap the rewards. We can call it "public education" and even capture the public externalities of having a well-educated population!

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

Honest question. Instead of institutions declaring that so and so is certified in a field, why not let employers make these decisions based on the work that the student has produced. Particularly for the STEM fields, let each student publish their thesis or project work in a publicly available repo and rather than evaluate someone on GPA or degree, evaluate them on whether their domain knowledge is good enough.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#234

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

maccard wrote: post #31

econ101fail wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please show me where an unemployed person with uncertain future prospects and neither a work history nor any assets can get an unsecured personal loan for 4-9%? I'll even give you a pass on the requirements of the loan payback being subject to employment or a minimum income, a payment cap or a term limit. Adding to the above, as noted the edit to my previous comment, even the 15% APR number is wrong in general. An En…

> Please show me where an unemployed person with uncertain future prospects and neither a work history nor any assets can get an unsecured personal loan for 4-9%? Every high street bank in the UK offers a student overdraft facility, e.g. HSBC[0] offers a guaranteed £1000 0% overdraft, with up to £3000 depending on how long you've had it. Other banks offer credit cards with 0% interest for students too. Finally, stude…

How much does a year of tuition and expenses cost, does your 1k-3k line of credit cover that?

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#235

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #96

ceejayoz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one problem solved, but likely creating (or restoring) others. Their non-dischargable status helps keep rates low(er) and allow folks who'd never qualify for a $100k loan otherwise get a degree. If we're gonna require a bachelors degree to work at McDonalds, it's probably time to treat undergraduate education like K-12; as an entirely publicly funded endeavour.

The problem is, it also allows folks who would never qualify for a 100k loan otherwise get 100K into debt. I read an article about how artists are struggling in the high cost San Francisco Bay Area (sorry no link, because it was really an eye-opening article). The article did mention student loans, but focused mainly on gentrification brought about by high tech. However, they did profiles of various struggling artist…

Are federally backed student loaners allowed to reject financing based on field of study?

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#236

Post by throwawayjava » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #180

charlesdm wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people are (somewhat) stupid in their early 20s. I don't disagree that not everyone belongs in university, however, most people don't realise that until it is too late and are already in debt. Free higher education works well in the European countries that offer it. What better investment could a society make than allow someone to pursue a field they are passionate about, and letting them start life with a clean…

>Free higher education works well in the European countries that offer it It depends what you're looking at. I think it hurts local communities by exporting all the young talent and gets people plugged into the white collar, global economy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what I do, but I think a lot of the time in college could have been better spent learning how to build houses, make furniture, grow food, etc. If the g…

...That happens in the USA anyways.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#237

Post by danans » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

instaheat wrote: post #75

ChrisClark wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else. Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they chose to be poor."

Chris, I understand what you are saying. Of course we care to help other people. Collectively, the US might be seen as "selfish" but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else. I really feel for people who will go to great lengths to help others, even if it reduces the quality of their own life just because it's the "right thing to do" My mother-in-la…

> but I think at a certain point, you have to understand you do not want to harm yourself just to help someone else.

What's special about the US among highly developed nations is that we've convinced ourselves that most of us would be harmed, when it's likely that only a very well-off minority would be harmed (where "harmed" means "be slight less well-off, but still well off").

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#238

Post by screye » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 11:31 PM UTC

SkyBelow wrote: post #143

llamataboot wrote: post #101

Let's scale this up huge, let everyone take part, and have all of society invest in education and reap the rewards. We can call it "public education" and even capture the public externalities of having a well-educated population!

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

That would be great. I've seen too many people coast off of prestigious degrees, while other hardworking people struggle because they do not have the same access to quality education.

Note, that OP isn't suggesting that the educational process be centralized. Just the funding. Unlike K-12 public schools, universities will still maintain full autonomy on how they want to go about teaching or structuring curriculum.

European countries offer free education, and their quality is still great.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#239

Post by screye » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 11:33 PM UTC

SatvikBeri wrote: post #193

michaelchisari wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think this hasn't happened in Europe?

My understanding is that most European colleges have entrance exams and only a fraction of people pass. And since entrance is based purely on exams, college admission is a much stronger signal than in the US.

I think it is the other way round.

You can easily enroll in any university you like, but can't advance in that major if held back in the rather difficult weed-out classes.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#240

Post by basementcat » Wed, Apr 10, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

throwaway082729 wrote: post #233

SkyBelow wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And watch the value of the college degree follow the trend of a high school diploma! If we offered free college, how long before we start dropping the standards to earn a degree (for the same reasons we did so with high school diplomas) and have students waste even more of their lives in extremely sub par education environments?

Honest question. Instead of institutions declaring that so and so is certified in a field, why not let employers make these decisions based on the work that the student has produced. Particularly for the STEM fields, let each student publish their thesis or project work in a publicly available repo and rather than evaluate someone on GPA or degree, evaluate them on whether their domain knowledge is good enough.

Honestly and fairly evaluating an individual requires more resources than checking the value of a single bit (hasDegree==1). Society has attempted to address this scaling problem with a system of _degrees_ and/or _certifications_.