Let's scale this up huge, let everyone take part, and have all of society invest in education and reap the rewards. We can call it "public education" and even capture the public externalities of having a well-educated population!
Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
101–110 of 264 posts
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#102Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.
Absolutely not, at least not without making college much more difficult. Otherwise it is just subsidizing adult daycare. Many people do not belong in college and learn next to nothing, but go because they're shoo'ed along into it and the universities are in on the joke, and in on the money-making, and undergoing a drastic reduction of standards as a result. Some data on just how bad higher ed is getting, from 2017: h…
Are there statistics that compare open admissions and selective schools?
(If performance at an identifiable subset of schools is better, then it's more that spending resources on the other schools is questionable than it is that higher education is in a crisis)
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the natural fix. People then don't get the loans they can't afford. There is no limiters in place for a liberal arts major taking out 100k loans. The future is in income sharing agreements. Let the market and investors decide if they can be paid back.
If college loans could be discharged via bankruptcy it wouldn't just be liberal arts majors with 100k loans who did it, EVERYONE would. Even people graduating and taking high paying jobs who could easily pay back the loans. Saying that college loans should be dischargeable is basically saying that student loans shouldn't exist (which is a fine point of view, but people should be clear on what their position is).
No, no, no. Before the seventies student loans could be discharged and less than 1% of lawyers and doctors discharged them through bankruptcy. In general these loans were paid back.
Second point. Saying a loan should be dischargeable does not mean the loan shouldn't exist. It is a cost the lender has to assume. And before you point out that this will be inflicted upon the borrower in the form of higher interest, I have my doubts. The bearer of an additional transactional cost depends on mostly on elasticity, but basically there is so much profit in student loans right now the lenders will just make a lot less money, and nothing else will change.
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.
We already collectively pay for K-12 education (in the US). I'd rather pay a little extra and see progress equalizing opportunity in a world where complex skills are increasingly needed to succeed. Anyone who was able to go to a great school and get a great education without mountains of debt because mom and dad subsidized it should count themselves among the lucky. Everyone capable should get this chance. Public uni…
> I'd rather pay a little extra and see progress equalizing opportunity in a world where complex skills are increasingly needed to succeed.
There's little evidence that modern college provides skills to succeed; There is increasing evidence that there is a shortage in trades.
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, one problem solved, but likely creating (or restoring) others. Their non-dischargable status helps keep rates low(er) and allow folks who'd never qualify for a $100k loan otherwise get a degree. If we're gonna require a bachelors degree to work at McDonalds, it's probably time to treat undergraduate education like K-12; as an entirely publicly funded endeavour.
Perhaps 100k prices are propped up by low interest loans.
Very possibly! Another reason to expand the public K-12 system to undergraduate level.
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.
My parents didn’t have mountains of wealth. We grew up in a home where sometimes my mom forced me to go to school even when I was feeling sick because I could get one of my meals there. In your view of the world, people like me essentially wouldn’t have access to opportunity that would be reserved for the wealthy folks. You shouldn’t have to care about me individually, but if there are enough people like me, it takes…
But you don't have to pay for college out of your pocket and you don't need to be rich to go to college. My parents were on the poverty line too, and I got in thanks to student loans that I will have no trouble repaying very quickly.
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#107It’s interesting they talk about it as something different than a loan. It’s just a loan with good terms, right? It seems good to have a flexible pay-back schedule, no late fees, and something that adapts to my situation in case I lose my job. But the bigger picture is that this kind of thing is allowing tuition to increase. We don’t really need better ways to finance ballooning tuitions as much as we need to figure…
Well, a loan ends after you pay back the principal, this only seems to end after a certain period of time, even if you end up in a great job and having to pay back 3x or 4x the loan. Whether this is still worth it depends heavily on whether this shows up on your credit reports...
Great point, the terms might not be great at all. I should have said relaxed schedule. Agreed, income sharing might not be worth it. Just another reason we should investigate other ways to pay for education than personal financing, right?
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#108Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.
Absolutely not, at least not without making college much more difficult. Otherwise it is just subsidizing adult daycare. Many people do not belong in college and learn next to nothing, but go because they're shoo'ed along into it and the universities are in on the joke, and in on the money-making, and undergoing a drastic reduction of standards as a result. Some data on just how bad higher ed is getting, from 2017: h…
1: Make college much more difficult.
2: Allow people to enter it and fail. People need to be made aware that just because they passed their undergraduate work, they really aren't as smart as they think they are.
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
If college loans could be discharged via bankruptcy it wouldn't just be liberal arts majors with 100k loans who did it, EVERYONE would. Even people graduating and taking high paying jobs who could easily pay back the loans. Saying that college loans should be dischargeable is basically saying that student loans shouldn't exist (which is a fine point of view, but people should be clear on what their position is).
No, no, no. Before the seventies student loans could be discharged and less than 1% of lawyers and doctors discharged them through bankruptcy. In general these loans were paid back. Second point. Saying a loan should be dischargeable does not mean the loan shouldn't exist. It is a cost the lender has to assume. And before you point out that this will be inflicted upon the borrower in the form of higher interest, I ha…
Student loans were much much smaller in the era you refer to (before 1976 when the law was changed). Behavior would be much different today with the much larger debts people take on.
Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment
#110Let's scale this up huge, let everyone take part, and have all of society invest in education and reap the rewards. We can call it "public education" and even capture the public externalities of having a well-educated population!
ISAs != tax funded education because the former closely aligns the incentives of the educator with the educated while the latter does not.