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How not to hire a software engineer

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Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#231

Post by tombert »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #216
tombert wrote: post #154

Years ago, I was interviewing, and they asked me a fairly typical "Design Twitter" question. I always hate these kinds of questions because it took Twitter 10 years to get to where it is, and I'm certain they didn't design all of it in 15 minutes on a whiteboard. Anyway, I'm drawing little boxes and arrows, and when the subject of a DB comes up, I ask "do you want availability or consistency", because I figured that…

Did that interviewer hire you after admitting that you were right in pointing out his mistake?

The company made me an offer, which I didn't accept, though for different reasons, mostly with me having skepticism on the sustainability of the company.

Joke's on me, I think; looks like the company is doing better than before, the stock package they had might have made me about $400k.

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#232

Post by johneke »

Thank you for writing this. I really hope common sense prevails soon. I have no idea how we got to the point where the "test" for a job has nothing to do with the job. I think senior engineers and tech leads need to actively work to kill this culture. I personally will never interview someone for my team by using some random questions from the internet that have nothing to do with what the candidate will work on. Again, great post

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#233

Post by pmiller2 »

llamataboot wrote: post #227
maheart wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Recently I've had three or four interviews that didn't quite get to the job offer stage, but they did both include over 30 hours of work + interview steps. This lines up exactly with my experience. 3-4 interviews, each requiring ~30 hours of technical tests, and interviewing. Absolutely ridiculous.

I wish there was like one long interview process I could go through - I do a bunch of technical work, I answer some standard questions on video, a bunch of companies review it all, and the ones that are interested schedule a 1-2 hour personal conversation to make sure we are a good fit. I suppose that is what triple-byte is trying to do. But really, we're all at-will employment, let's just work together for 3 months…

Regardless of what Triplebyte is trying to do, they don’t actually work the way you suggest. You take a short, multiple choice quiz, then do a coding challenge and an interview. I believe the time investment is around 4 hours.

What you get is actual, real feedback on your performance, and you skip straight to onsites with companies they match you with. The feedback is valuable, but I don’t know how their matching process works at all.

What it _doesn’t_ do is “turn an O(n) process into an O(1) process,” as their FAQ suggests. All it saves you is 1 phone screen per company they match you with. If a typical phone screen is 45-60 minutes, and the time you spend on their process is 4 hours, you need to interview with 4-6 of their clients to make it worthwhile in terms of time savings.

IMO, don’t try Triplebyte to save yourself time. Do it for the interview feedback, because that’s the best place I know where you can get real feedback for free.

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#234

Post by Tomis02 »

jimbokun wrote: post #176
watwut wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't really get this attitude. What exactly you want me to ask assuming I know salary and position? General information about company is usually right there on the website. I am really not sure what exactly the hiring manager is supposed to be asked at that moment, especially by someone young who does not have enough experience to distinguish between lying hiring manager and the one that tells the truth. I co…

"What exactly you want me to ask assuming I know salary and position?" "Who are your most important customers?" "What is your monthly recurring revenue?" "What is your best selling product?" "What's one thing you like about working here?" "What's one thing you don't like about working here?" This isn't very difficult. Just requires a slight interest in the industry you plan to work in.

They don't ask anything because the answer changes nothing. If they get an offer, they'll 99% take it. If they get two competing offers (I'd say this is uncommon unless you're interviewing in a very large job market like SV) they'd most likely know which one they prefer based on their individual criteria (unlikely this would come down to a question asked in an interview).

Second, most people aren't lucky enough to interview for their dream job, they usually have to settle for something else. Consequently, they really have no significant interest in their future industry. Do you blame them?

You want them to fake interest? Sure, they can do that, but does it really help anyone? They applied because they might want to work there, for whatever reason. Why not let them be concerned with how interested they are?

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#235

Post by llamataboot »

pmiller2 wrote: post #233
llamataboot wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was like one long interview process I could go through - I do a bunch of technical work, I answer some standard questions on video, a bunch of companies review it all, and the ones that are interested schedule a 1-2 hour personal conversation to make sure we are a good fit. I suppose that is what triple-byte is trying to do. But really, we're all at-will employment, let's just work together for 3 months…

Regardless of what Triplebyte is trying to do, they don’t actually work the way you suggest. You take a short, multiple choice quiz, then do a coding challenge and an interview. I believe the time investment is around 4 hours. What you get is actual, real feedback on your performance, and you skip straight to onsites with companies they match you with. The feedback is valuable, but I don’t know how their matching pro…

Ture, but for some companies the "technical phone screen" is multiple interviews + a take home. Etc.

If I get to skip 10+ hours of interviews and coding work, that's a significant time savings

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#236

Post by FussyZeus »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #229
FussyZeus wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this market? I'd laugh in the interviewer's face. Like hell I'm doing a month of unpaid work for your "prestigious" opportunity.

It's another way for them to age discriminate.

I guess, I just call it demanding I work for free, and that ain't gonna happen.

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#237

Post by gwbas1c »

kod wrote: post #134
gwbas1c wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors have to go through a rather grueling licensing process. The job interview is mostly about determining mutual interest. Doctors also need to go through periodic re-credentialing. To put it bluntly, when a doctor has credentials, you at least know that they're competent; and more competent than 2-4 1-hour quizzes.

Speaking as a licensed attorney, passing the bar does not mean that you're competent.

The bar exam is different than what doctors go through

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#238

Post by tfont »

I agree and disagree with a lot of points.

Most importantly, writing programs on whiteboards. I hate this, but it's an insightful way to measure the individuals thinking processing, decision-making skills, and communications skills.

Expect them to fail and see how they handle the situation and themselves.

Re: How not to hire a software engineer

#239

Post by wryun »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #206
wryun wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked at 4 software companies in Australia so far and none have been concerned about which programming languages I know (admittedly not for super high wages, but still...)

So how did they do the code test? Did they say you can do it in any language? I interviewed for atlassian a few years ago. They gave me a tricky Java test, the kind that you’d only pass if you’ve been battling Java for years and know the gotchas. So that was a fail. I could have studied Java harder, but I’ve only got so much time and so many opportunities.

1 don't remember, 1 any (but need SQL), 1 Java (Atlassian, actually, but only the easy screen - may have been the particular division here), 1 no test because they knew me.
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