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Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

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Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#231

Post by kalleboo »

idoubtit wrote: post #123
Digit-Al wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have just had a look on Wikipedi for the list of road deaths by country [1]. The figures are from 2013, so very out of date, but for the UK (where I live) it is 5.1 road fatalaties per 100,000 motor vehicles. For the US it is 12.9, and for China 104.5. I think that shows pretty starkly that the reason we are paying so much more for our cars is for a massively higher chance of surviving an accident. [1] https://en.w…

China has twice the rate of fatalities per vehicle of Argentina, which has twice that of the USA, which is four times worth than Switzerland. It means the cars sold in Switzerland are much better than in America and everywhere else? Modern American and European cars may have a positive impact on the fatality rate, but the numbers above don't prove it in any way. I suspect the local culture of driving and the legal po…

> I suspect the local culture of driving and the legal policy explain most of the differences between these rates.

Local culture has a huge impact. Adherence to seatbelt laws, tolerance of drunk driving etc vary massively.

> BTW, when walking or riding a bicycle, I'd rather get hit by a 20 year old average car than a modern SUV

I'm not 100% sold on that - modern safety ratings like Euro NCAP also rate injuries to pedestrians so the hoods of modern vehicles are designed to give way. Some cars (e.g. Volvo) even go as far as to have active hoods - "Sensors in the bumper detect when a pedestrian has been struck and actuators lift the bonnet to provide greater clearance to stiff structures in the engine compartment"

You might also not even get hit in the first place thanks to AEB systems.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#232

Post by llampx »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #120
pier25 wrote: post #54

I'm surprised China is going straight to the first world markets. These could be a hit in developing countries like Mexico (at China prices).

Developing countries don't have reliable power delivery networks with enough reserve capacity to handle a surge in demand to charge these cars.

Citizens of developing countries often take more of the infrastructure into their own hands than first-worlders. I can completely see someone buying a cheap-ish EV and a bunch of solar cells to go on their roof with it. Once you pay off the initial costs, you have free energy and cheap transportation. Not to mention that the power grid is often more reliable at night, when most EVs would be charged, than in the daytime.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#233

Post by Amezarak »

MRD85 wrote: post #230
bronco21016 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s mostly a cultural thing but the pickup is just so dang convenient. I have two dogs and a young child and it’s just so convenient to plan a trip where we question what we might need and can just say ‘Oh well, we have room. Just toss it in the bed.’ Do I need this vehicle? No. I survived just fine without it. However it’s the same payment as the small SUV we owned prior with 10x the utility. Why wouldn’t s…

I'm Aussie, we call them "utes". Our taxation systems don't reward large vehicles. We have taxes on purchasing them, yearly tax on registration and compulsory insurance, high fuel taxes, etc. Even the "smaller" pickups are quite expensive to own and operate. The large ones wouldn't sell well here due to the cost.

US taxation works the same way. It does very somewhat from state to state, but generally there is a sales tax assessed as a percentage of the sale price and an annual registration fee commensurate with the assessed value of the vehicle. For expensive trucks and SUVs, the latter can reach into the thousands.

Since most people are not buying a 35k+ vehicle with cash money, instead taking out loans, they are required by the bank to carry expensive full coverage insurance on top of the state-mandated liability insurance - and generally a more expensive vehicle will have more expensive insurance, since a tota loss requires a higher payout.

Gas prices in the US are lower than in many countries, but there are state and federal excise taxes, generally (nominally) used to fund road maintenance. Combining a large tank with long commutes and poor gas mileage, it’s not uncommon for people to be spending $200 (with the current low prices) a month per vehicle on gas. This is a significant fraction of post tax income for most Americans.

Americans are spending a ton of money on large vehicles. They know they’re spending a ton of money on them. For whatever reason, they really think it’s worth it.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#234

Post by UncleEntity »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #213
cr0sh wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Careful about relying on that, as while state law may not require you add safety equipment such as seat belts, county or city law might. We're talking Arizona. Here, you can get away with just about anything, and unless it's blatant, nobody really cares. Sometimes not even then.

I recently was talking about protected left-hand turn patterns and remembered a trip to Arizona in the early 2000s. I remember my parents being initially cautious but quickly thrilled about protected left-hand turns coming after yellow lights and before red lights. It seems like it ought to reduce congestion and accidents. So I started looking into it, and I found that that isn't even an all-Arizona thing. Municipali…

Mostly just Scottsdale does that and it does cause a bit of confusion when people don't expect it and are playing with their phones but overall it's better since people don't clog up the left turn signal running the red.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#235

Post by pedrocr »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #133
pedrocr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those uses just buy a John Deere Gator or a Toro Workman. Best purchase we ever made for our hobby farm. Relatively easy to find cheap used ones and maintenance is really simple to do yourself. We have the Workman. The electric motor climbs anything and is very easy to modulate for use in tight maneuvers. The turning radius is so small it can go anywhere it will physically fit.

They make an electric Gator now? Looked a few years ago and it wasn't really an option. Do they actually have proper industrial or agri tires as an option? I guess it's just lead acid, tho? Must be heavy and low range. I'd love something like that with a J1772 plug so I can use my existing L2 EVSE

They've always made one. It's lead acid but has more than enough range for a day of work at the farm. Weight just helps with traction. Recent models have the charger on the car so you just need a place with an outlet. There are plenty of tire options out there too. I bought it with turf tires and replaced the rear ones with some nice offroad tires. It drives through pretty much anything now. Here are the ones I got:

https://www.carlislebrandtires.com/our-products/product-deta...

There are plenty ATV choices that fit but ones with high loading ratings are needed to support the car and the load.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#236

Post by malshe »

justaguyhere wrote: post #184

When a foreigner lands in the US, the first thing she'd notice are how big things are - cars, super markets, the amount of food they give in restaurants, the size of soda cups, popcorn "buckets" etc. Americans like their big cars. I've heard them make fun of small cars as "toys" many times. It would be interesting to see how these tiny cars are received in a market that is used to having pretty much everything big.

Recently in our parking garage they marked two parking lots on the corner for compact cars. I usually park quite close to these spots and I have yet to see a truly compact car parked there. I have even seen pickup trucks parked there! I once showed it to the parking lot attendant and he just shrugged and said it looked compact to him :)

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#237

Post by azinman2 »

so33 wrote: post #208
azinman2 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the smart car never really took off, even in said high-density areas.

Maybe the smart car was too small, but “Small” cars (by American standards, anyway) are still popular. They’re just disguised as SUVs and classified as “subcompact crossovers”. With how wide American roads tend to be, the Smart car is perhaps unnecessarily small for America.

Yet you can park in many spaces in SF that a regular car cannot. So it can’t just be about utility...

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#238

Post by MRD85 »

Amezarak wrote: post #233
MRD85 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Aussie, we call them "utes". Our taxation systems don't reward large vehicles. We have taxes on purchasing them, yearly tax on registration and compulsory insurance, high fuel taxes, etc. Even the "smaller" pickups are quite expensive to own and operate. The large ones wouldn't sell well here due to the cost.

US taxation works the same way. It does very somewhat from state to state, but generally there is a sales tax assessed as a percentage of the sale price and an annual registration fee commensurate with the assessed value of the vehicle. For expensive trucks and SUVs, the latter can reach into the thousands. Since most people are not buying a 35k+ vehicle with cash money, instead taking out loans, they are required by…

Here it's a bit different. We have special taxes that only apply to utes/vans/trucks and our annual fees are based on the engine size of the vehicle (with a bonus fee for utes/vans). I traded my ute in for a smaller car about a year ago and my yearly fees have halved, my on-road costs have halved, etc. I do agree that you have an odd cultural fascination with them, that's why I don't think they'd sell well here. We are trending smaller nowadays.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#239

Post by crowdpleaser »

manmal wrote: post #126
Poiesis wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commented earlier about buying a used Leaf instead of the car in the article. I just wanted to mention that it's a great bicycle alternative for me too. Used to bike to work before I had four kids going different places.

I wonder why those are so cheap in the US. A 4 yo Leaf costs €16k where I live, and that’s considered a bargain actually.

A used leaf doesn't appeal to a lot of people.

A lot of used leafs are down to 60-80 miles of usable range, IIRC the average American commutes something like 15 miles each way, missing a charge or adding errands can put someone in a tight spot. And the weather in most American cities is 'extreme' - either winter is very cold (bad for battery range) or hot (bad for battery longevity in the leaf). My old city of minneapolis would have winter lows near -40 degrees C and would hit 38-40 degrees C every summer. That's very demanding for batteries.

America doesn't have a lot of charging infrastructure and unless you're a homeowner or live in a luxury apartment or work at a tech company or a company with an i.t competency, it's probably going to be hard to charge regularly.

Our cheap gas erodes the cost advantages of electric, you can find priuses (a Toyota hybrid) for $3k in any major city and that's going to give an electric car a serious run for its money in energy costs.

Re: Cheap Chinese electric cars are coming to the US and Europe

#240

Post by tk75x »

HashHishBang wrote: post #42
akshatrathi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say there's no crash protection on the Pickman. It's the $1000 cars sold in China that don't have them. Pretty sure that to qualify in the US and Europe, the Kaiyun car need to a minimum level of safety features.

According to this retailer (I think it's a retailer at least) "crash protection" is not really an included feature. http://www.trackandfieldmotors.com/info.php?car_id=133

ABS, roof bars, traction control, and airbags are all what I would consider crash protection. EDIT: Didn't see the traction control the first time around.
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