Live data from Hacker News

Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

threadreaderapp.com

231–240 of 272 posts

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#231
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, real mainstream use cases are a good measure of tech success. At least, I'd want to see some plausible early mainstream use and a path for it to broaden. It's very typical that spruikers of tech hype cycles focus on the amount of press coverage, the number of projects rushing into the space, the amount of developer interest, or highly extrapolated market numbers. It doesn't prove anything about whether the thing…

Yeah, I agree that to a casual follower of the space, the lack of mainstream use cases should arguably raise some red flags. However, as someone now deeply involved in the tech, I'm pretty confident that the use cases are coming and are delayed solely because of peculiar obstacles that will likely get resolved in the near future.

I'd love to hear what those use cases are, and what the fixable obstacles are.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#233

Vitalik & Co have enough money to hire an army of top developers if they want to try and fix ETH. The fact that they don't is proof that it's unfixable and that they don't care.

There aren't enough devs who know how to write/research decentralized apps for them to hire. If you know of them, they will hire those people gladly

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But even back in 2011, there was a very high number of HNers who seemed personally affronted by the very idea that money was a social agreement. They seemed to believe that money was some kind of official, government activity, end of story. And that anyone who believed otherwise was an evil heretic, to be ridiculed. This x10. If I were to anthropomorphise HN it would be a middle aged white collar worker, pretty sma…

I smiled at your characterization. Although, more realistically, our archetype has done modestly well by working for the man, and has 100k-low millions in index funds and company stock, and some comfort with +/- 30% swings y/y. But let's also remember, that middle-aged character has seen the hype cycles many times before in previous decades, and recognizes the scam. The sky-high and unstable valuations, the co-depend…

That's true, but someone less conservative would see the cycle and want to throw in on the next iteration. The HNer sees the iterations go by and mostly calls BS, but then profits tangentially by getting high salary jobs fueled by the cycle. I would also say the HNer has a bit of a doomsday/apocalyptic tendency, entertaining the idea that the next bust is "the end." E.g., crypto is dead.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum is predominantly written in C++. The python codebase you are talking about is the Ethereum client / virtual machine of which there are several implementations written in Java, Go etc.

Non of you are right. Go ethereum (geth), the official client is written in Golang

I know GETH is the official one now. But that does not matter at all. So a software written in Python is only 30K line with tests, it could become 15M lines once it is rewritten in Go? Of course, it is IMPOSSIBLE!

Btw, there is also a RUST implementation from Gavin Wood, which is much faster than Geth.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#236
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, some Proof-of-Stake setup: 1. Assume we have some set of "validators" who control the global consensus process. They come to consensus on the current global state of the system. These validators are vaguely analogous to miners in Proof-of-Work consensus. 2. These validators have coins bonded as collateral in exchange for more voting power in the consensus process. One key idea necessary for Proof-of-Stake is t…

As a new user in a Proof-of-Stake protocol, how do I determine which chain to follow? With PoW I can choose the 'longest' chain (chain with the most total work).

Easy. You'd probably pick the one with the biggest market cap. The whole point of money is that it is useful because everyone else is using it. So the one with the biggest market cap is almost certainly the one that you'd want to follow.

Or you could not do that. You could instead pick a different one. There is nothing stopping you.

If there are multiple networks, it would be obvious, and you can merely make up your own mind about which to follow.

Interestingly enough, this also applies to POW chains. There is nothing stopping you from picking a shorter chain. But if I had to guess, I would say that almost nobody would be following the shorter one.

This applies to POS coins as well. There would likely be 1 chain, that everyone is following. And this one chain would be obvious.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#237

Vitalik & Co have enough money to hire an army of top developers if they want to try and fix ETH. The fact that they don't is proof that it's unfixable and that they don't care.

There aren't enough devs who know how to write/research decentralized apps for them to hire. If you know of them, they will hire those people gladly

FB and Aws both have a branch of devs who know P2P and blockchain.

P2P is not that complex, just it is not worth time to work on it at this moment because it goes nowhere.

Actually, P2P research was only hot around 2000-2005.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're trusting someone on the internet to tell you protocol specifications (and then, since you don't trust the software distributor, doing a full audit of their software or writing your own client). With Proof of Stake, you're trusting someone on the internet to tell you the hash for the most recent valid block. And in practice the difference is even less significant. In reality, very close to every new user of…

The two are very different. Knowing consensus rules I can verify the chain and if I notice something fishy - I go back to figuring out if I’m being attacked. If instead I simply accept what chain I should follow - I have no guarantees I wasn’t attacked. With PoS it’s even worse - I can generate million different chains for zero cost and you have no objective measure to tell which one of them is more genuine and more…

> Knowing consensus rules I can verify the chain and if I notice something fishy - I go back to figuring out if I’m being attacked.

But you don't know the consensus rules. How do you know that sha256 is the "real" bitcoin proof of work algorithm? Maybe the real POW algorithm is sha512?

You can't get around this bootstrapping problem.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying here goes against any reasonable macroeconomic theory. Deflation causes spending to stop because people hoard money, as spending stops, economies dry up, and voila... economic stagnation at best. But no one without a formal education is Economics is likely to even be remotely aware of that. Inflation, and Keynesian economics, have empirically served the world quite well. The government's and social…

Spending does not stop. It may slow. Most arguments against deflation are largely strawmen, and the historical examples of it are usually a result of too much government intervention, or it following a period of high inflation. Here's an example of deflation: Moore's Law. If computing power is going to double in 18 months, then a computer I buy now will be worth much less in 18 months. If that's the case, best not bu…

> Spending does not stop. It may slow. Most arguments against deflation are largely strawmen, and the historical examples of it are usually a result of too much government intervention, or it following a period of high inflation.

Ummm... You realize you just made this up out of thin air, and provided no proof.

> Here's an example of deflation: Moore's Law. If computing power is going to double in 18 months, then a computer I buy now will be worth much less in 18 months. If that's the case, best not buy that computer and wait 18 months right?

That happens all the time. People wait for refresh cycles but I don't see how this is relevant to currencies or macroeconomics. It certainly backs nothing you've said.

> Another example is a car. It loses 20% of its value on purchase and continues to lose value year on year and is eventually worth nothing.

sigh You're not accounting for the utility of using the car. At some point the marginal utility of new features will be less than the utility of something today... Microeconomics courses would help clear up this for you.

> Economic theorists are mostly employees or funded by the banks, the central banks and the governments. There's a "consensus" among them that inflation = good because it benefits the industries they work for.

Conspiracy theory, much? Also that's like saying because physicists are employed by someone they must all be maligned to say the same evil bullshit. Might as well tell me the earth is flat, mate.

> Anyway, it does not matter, because Bitcoin cannot be inflated, and if people now have the choice to hold a deflationary currency or an inflationary one, let them pick! We'll see if those economists were right after all when people actually have a choice.

You're right, the ignorant and poor will be given the opportunity and "choice" to lose their money and savings because ignorant loud mouthed people who have done no actual research or learning are spouting shit which sounds compelling. It's a lot like people selling radioactive tonics to make you live longer at the beginning of the 1900s. People who are ignorant of the science, ramifications, and who don't are to not be are advising people as though they aren't... and people's lives will be ruined for it.

Re: Why I’m so “against” Ethereum

#240
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electricity company has bills to pay. If some company can find a way to make unlimited energy without expending resources, then yes, they will become the richest entity in the world, regardless of the presence of Bitcoin or not. Your assumptions are all resting on the idea that Bitcoin can't be used to pay taxes. This is already pretty flawed in a few places where it is possible. It will be flawed in many places…

> The electricity company has bills to pay. If some company can find a way to make unlimited energy without expending resources, then yes, they will become the richest entity in the world, regardless of the presence of Bitcoin or not. There is a finite amount of Bitcoin total by nature of the protocol. The electricity company is vital to Bitcoin being usable since it's a digital currency. The miners might be necessar…

> And every bit of Bitcoin they get is worth slightly more after they get it then it was when it was paid, so their purchasing power is going up and up and up.

So you are saying that bitcoin would only ever become more and more valuable?

How can you similtaneously believe this statement, and that bitcoin is worthless?

They can't both be true. Either bitcoin is deflationary, IE, it goes up and up in value, and becomes more and more valuable, or it isn't.

Which is it? Is bitcoin worthless, or it is so extremely valuable and amazing, that it is going to take over the entire world with how deflationary it is?

Personally, I'd want to support something that you apparently believe is so useful that it is going to take over the world.

Post reply on HN