Live data from Hacker News

Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

theintercept.com

231–240 of 372 posts

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#231
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, it's not because > they could pose a potential social problem, even though they are not presently It's because > This region is exhibiting separatism over religious lines, and our country has an established pattern of religous separatist movements turning into catastrophic wars that claim tens of millions of lives. In short, while Westerners might see mass incarceration of religous minorities and think,…

Your understanding of this issue is much better than many HNers on the reason why the "concentration camp" exist. Most HNers get all information from West Media with many convincing "evidence" with map and photo analysis. That's why you "appall". However, there are other sources of information selectively filtered by media. For example,here's a story of a famous Uhigyr celebrity went back to her alma mater (in Chines…

You're omitting the most plausible explanation:

3. They are disgusted by the camps, but they know if they speak out they'll end up inside one.

China keeps a tight leash on its celebrities. The government is willing to make even internationally famous ones like Fan Bing Bing disappear for months without explanation. It probably wouldn't take much to make one of the Uhigyr celebrities you mention disappear permanently.

What I said to the other commenter also applies here: don't confuse my empathy with why these camps exist with approval.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#232
post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

Your article says that using iCloud for storage is optional and all users were warned of this change and had to agree to new service terms. Why wouldn't anyone worried about their data, simply do backups on a computer?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#233

AFAICT the way Dragonfly utilizing search log to probe Great Fire Wall blacklist and skip them in results was the same way how google.cn (localized Google search in china) worked. That was a smart but arguable approach, Google was heavily criticized to present those "passively censored" results. However, no one from Google at that time did a #walkout or resign for that. Also notably Google did not quit China for the…

> Google employee did become more active on these issues which I think is progressive.

Because the world is changing. The concern around privacy and censorship hasn't reached that level back in 2006 (Mainly because most westerners hasn't been effected by it, funny).

The situation today is much different now.

BUT, I don't think this will be a easy battle. Many people on Slashdot don't even believe Google will just stop trying after this.

The harm is done, Google.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#234
My guess is they will just switch to doing a pilot project in another country, just as repressive, but somewhere where the abuse of power is relatively speaking more under the radar for most people than China. Myanmar, for example, or Vietnam. This way they can achieve the research goals of learning how to operate in such an environment, while pretending to have stopped.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#235
post #98

Never really understood why Google running a search engine in China is controversial, it wouldn't be the first US company doing business there, nor the first to censor due to local laws (Apple censors their app store etc) and it's not like tiananmen square queries will be the bulk of their traffic.

But not understanding something is not a valid argument against it. It says more about you than about the issue. It may seem like a trivial point to counter you on, but I do think this line of (non-) reasoning is overused or at best just very poorly worded, and should be confronted as such.

There are reasons. For example, it would be desirable for Google to avoid being complicit in human rights violations.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#236
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too bad there are so many people like Manafort who are happy to take on that job for a quick buck. Sure people are being hunted down but check out the ostrich jacket!

Well the depressing part for me is I have seen good friends, extremely smart people who have no sane reason to be working on shady shit, fall down the rabbit hole. And I really haven't found effective ways to do anything about it... There are two issues at play 1. Not everyone is prepared mentally to turn down big payouts. I have seen this happening up and down the food chain. You only understand how hard this is aft…

> Not everyone is prepared mentally to turn down big payouts

Nobody is prepared for racial profiling and genocide either.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#237
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It most definitely would make the people more oppressed. Even if we ignore the fact that the searches would be directly tied to a person, as well as the fact that there are nobody better than Google when it comes to tracking users on mass-scale, then you just have to think about all the people who would stop using VPNs as a result of this. You'd also be a fool to believe that China wouldn't slowly force Google to ass…

All domestic online activities are already linked to individuals. All apps and websites are required by law to do this so the marginal harm of having a censored Google is minimal, if any. People use VPN for a lot more than political searches on Google: Youtube, Instagram, Steam, Wikipedia etc. It's unlikely a censored Google will discourage using them all. on The other hand for those who'll never use VPN services, an…

No they're not. The big players are, but that doesn't include all. For instance, my websites are available to Chinese users and have no tracking whatsoever. The government can see they visited the website, but not necessarily what pages they visited.

I suggest you read the previous Dragonfly threads, they were filled with Chinese users proclaiming that they hated paying for VPN just to use Google. I'm not saying everyone would stop using VPN, but a significant percentage would.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#238
post #80

> Scott Beaumont, Google’s leader in China and a key architect of the Dragonfly project, “did not feel that the security, privacy, and legal teams should be able to question his product decisions,” If I was more eloquent I'd draw some analogy between Scott Beaumont's behavior and China...

I'm sorry, but almost every peace of information about Dragonfly we have is from the intercept, which has for source people who clearly are very biased against the project. So while we can come up with dozens of rumors that shine it in a very bad light, I'm not sure how fair that is, since we're missing the other half of the story. With enough selective "facts", I can make almost anything look bad.

Bias dosen't mean incorrect, every single human and organization has bias, its a fools errand to demand some kind of mythical "bias free" position.

Do you have specific issues with their reporting? Or do you just want to baselessly cast aspersions on what they are saying?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#239
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the rumors, Dragonfly goes far beyond censorship, in that it has provisions to identify specific people from search queries. So it's not just that searching for "Tiananmen Square" wouldn't give any useful results, but it'd also let the Big Brother know who was inappropriately curious. Combine this with their upcoming social credit system, and you can easily see how this is proactively helping build an au…

It's what all companies there are required to do and the Chinese people accept it, and a lot of them welcome the social credit system (according to reporting on the program) it's arrogant to to presume we know what's best for them.

" it's arrogant to to presume we know what's best for them."

Would you say the same for the victims of the khemr rouge, millions killed by Stalin?

Maybe the yellow stars helped the Jewish people gather for the Sabbath? /S

Basic human rights are not relative.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#240
I started working on fuzzy matching searchable encryption for this very reason; you can send an encrypted search term and match using jaccard similarity to an encrypted index of similar documents without information leakage of the search query or the encrypted document.

This is the state of the art at the moment and would be useful for such things as: 1)Private search over encrypted documents 2)getting your FICO score like equifax without leaking any information 3)finding genetic treatments for conditions you are predisposed to without revealing your private genetic makeup or a pharmaceutical companies patented gene therapy sequence

Typically retrieval of the document would require a TOR like network.

Ill post a link to my work in the near future. Msg me if you're interested.

Post reply on HN