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Apple deprecates Java

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple deprecates Java

#231

Post by bnastic »

varikin wrote: post #168
bnastic wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be it as it may, but xterm/X11 still kills Terminal.app in text rendering speed. Also, MacVim is, on my Mac at least, visibly slower in text rendering than the naked vim under xterm.

Text rendering speed? I type a letter Terminal, it appears. What are you doing that text rendering speed matters?

Try scrolling large amounts of text in MacVim, where the whole screen is refreshed, and then try the same in xterm+vim. MacVim is painfull to watch doing this, feel like working over a 300 baud modem. xterm/X11+vim are VERY fast combination for pure text editing, and that matters to me greatly. Same applies to Terminal.app (and it refuses to work in 256 colors, unlike xterm)

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#232

Post by aidenn0 »

ramchip wrote: post #67
pmjordan wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the close button on dockable floating windows. Is there an implementation of GTK that doesn't run via X11 on the mac? Gimp/Inkscape are lovely software on Linux, but using them on the Mac drives me insane. They're "meh" on Windows. I concluded a while back that the only decent way to do GUI programming properly was to develop multiple native frontends for the platforms you want to support. Everything els…

What about Qt? It looks good for me, although I never tried on a mac.

I've been very satisfied with Qt on the mac. I've ported a couple of linux applications I use. They are not as good as truely native ports (MacVim is clearly more of a "mac" app then any Qt built application), but it gets basic things like menu bar at the top and shortcuts using command instead of ctl right.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#233

Post by aidenn0 »

jrockway wrote: post #198
stcredzero wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking about going beyond what even Debian accomplished. As awesome as Debian is, it's based on unix-derived architecture from the 1970's. What about a successor to OS X with capabilities, orthogonal persistence, and no bootup? (App Store requirements and APIs could target easy migration to the new architecture.) Microsoft would have to follow or be left in the dust, but it would be travelling a path Apple is b…

it's based on unix-derived architecture from the 1970s Isn't this like saying that we shouldn't use wheeled vehicles anymore, because wheels are a stone-age technology? It's fun to reinvent the wheel, but the wheel has been around for a long time for a reason.

I think of Unix as more of a local-maxima than a fundamental item like the wheel. It's more like the internal combustion engine: there's been lots of technologies proposed that fix problems with it, but it's managed to improve faster than those technologies can gain traction.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#234

Post by loumf »

invertedlambda wrote: post #224
djhworld wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple don't really have much of an interest programmers, other than those who are developing for their platforms (OSX/iOS). I doubt programmers make up a huge % of Mac sales either to be honest, with the success of the iPhone breaking Apple into the mainstream, I don't think it's that difficult to find casual users making the switch to a Mac

"I doubt programmers make up a huge % of Mac sales either to be honest" You sure? It'd be interesting to see the results of an HN poll on this.

The install base of Mac is 50 million. http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/10/20/apple-cfo-tim-cook... There are about 9 million programmers in the world (heard this from Joel at BoS 2 weeks ago -- not sure if it's true, or if I am remembering correctly). If 50% of devs have a mac (way overestimate), we make up less than 10% of the users. Now ... how many of us need Java?

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#235

Post by diskrete »

callahad wrote: post #174
benologist wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash has had "publish to exe" capabilities since forever so I'm sure something'll emerge that publishes to w/e Macs use.

The Mac App Store also requires that you use XCode to package your apps.

One thing this enables is switching platforms. If a future MacBook Air runs on ARM instead of Intel, anyone using Xcode would only need to recompile to target the new platform. Similar to how Intel support was easy for Xcode developers (but very hard for Metrowerks developers). Getting everyone on Xcode gives Apple tremendous flexibility. They could even have apps target LLVM-IL (whatever it’s called) instead of the CPU directly.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#236

Post by spenrose »

invertedlambda wrote: post #224
djhworld wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple don't really have much of an interest programmers, other than those who are developing for their platforms (OSX/iOS). I doubt programmers make up a huge % of Mac sales either to be honest, with the success of the iPhone breaking Apple into the mainstream, I don't think it's that difficult to find casual users making the switch to a Mac

"I doubt programmers make up a huge % of Mac sales either to be honest" You sure? It'd be interesting to see the results of an HN poll on this.

Apple sells 22M Macs a year, and growing. How many people do you think compiled a Java program on Mac OS X worldwide this year? 10K? M-a-a-y-b-e 100K?

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#237

Post by jrusoff »

epynonymous wrote: post #68

fuck oracle :)

Does anyone else use Oxygen on the mac. I've never found anything that comes close when working with XML. But judging from the clunky UI, I have to conclude it's written in Java. I wonder what they will ship in future, maybe the app with a JVM installer? JR

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#238

Post by stcredzero »

jrockway wrote: post #198
stcredzero wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm thinking about going beyond what even Debian accomplished. As awesome as Debian is, it's based on unix-derived architecture from the 1970's. What about a successor to OS X with capabilities, orthogonal persistence, and no bootup? (App Store requirements and APIs could target easy migration to the new architecture.) Microsoft would have to follow or be left in the dust, but it would be travelling a path Apple is b…

it's based on unix-derived architecture from the 1970s Isn't this like saying that we shouldn't use wheeled vehicles anymore, because wheels are a stone-age technology? It's fun to reinvent the wheel, but the wheel has been around for a long time for a reason.

Isn't this like saying that we shouldn't use wheeled vehicles anymore, because wheels are a stone-age technology?

No, it's more like saying we should consider pneumatic tires, spring suspensions and ball bearings, despite greased wooden axles and wheels having done such a commendable job over the centuries.

Wheel = OS. I'm not proposing reinventing the notion of OS. I'm proposing using some more of the stuff we've learned and developed in the past 40 years to design and implement it.

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#239

Post by stcredzero »

aidenn0 wrote: post #233
jrockway wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's based on unix-derived architecture from the 1970s Isn't this like saying that we shouldn't use wheeled vehicles anymore, because wheels are a stone-age technology? It's fun to reinvent the wheel, but the wheel has been around for a long time for a reason.

I think of Unix as more of a local-maxima than a fundamental item like the wheel. It's more like the internal combustion engine: there's been lots of technologies proposed that fix problems with it, but it's managed to improve faster than those technologies can gain traction.

I think of Unix as more of a local-maxima than a fundamental item

Recognizing the difference between fundamentals and local-maxima constitutes some of the most powerful entrepreneurship!

Re: Apple deprecates Java

#240

Post by alastairpat »

hughw wrote: post #217
acdha wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What end-user Java applications are there for OS X? The only one which comes to mind is Crashplan but I'm sure it's lurking around in other places.

Vuze aka Azureus

I won't be upset to see that go. Worst bit torrent programme I think I've ever used since the rebranding.
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