Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#231

Post by baud147258 » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:04 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #226

dogma1138 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about the US but there are rules in regards to job postings in the UK and likely the EU at large that would make that a violation of anti-discrimination laws.

I'm pretty sure I've seen adverts asking for women (but not the contrary); can you cite the legislation (at UK level is fine). rant incoming: Indeed in my small niche the almost exclusively female company owners, who always address group messages to "ladies", when enquiring about taking on employees always say "I'm thinking of taking on a girl, where should I advertise" or similar. Weekend help is "a Saturday girl".…

In which niche are you working in?

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#232

Post by _dps » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #175

So the argument, as I see it here, is that companies should be forced to spend additional resources advertising to demographics that they have identified as not strong leads in their campaigns, so that overly virtuous people can feel happy about them spending money on something that likely won't concern them in the slightest. Righto. If the article's title was "Facebook is letting job advertisers target only women" o…

> companies should be forced to spend additional resources advertising to demographics that they have identified as not strong leads

Leaving aside judgement of the merits of such policy, this is basically already the case in real estate post Fair Housing legislation.

Among other things advertisements for housing, to the extent they include human models, must show models that proportionally represent the population of the community, not the population of the desired buyers.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#233

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #81

kristjansson wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the parent is that it’s being asked to prevent/impede its customers from doing illegal things. That’s not a ridiculous thing to ask, but it’s very different from Facebook itself engaging in illegal activity.

But Facebook itself is engaging in illegal activity by publishing those ads! It is against the law to do that. If you commit a crime because somebody else asked you to do it, does that mean you didn’t break the law? If Facebook commits a crime because someone asked them to do it, does that mean they didn’t break the law? How could the answers to those two questions be different?

Your position is akin to "the highways agency broke the law because they assisted the bank robber by making a road". I don't find it compelling.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#234

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:08 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #58

patcheudor wrote: post #5

Blaming Facebook muddies the water a bit. Ultimately the companies advertising on Facebook broke the law when they checked the wrong boxes. Facebook should; however, make that information public knowledge by allowing the public to see the advertising parameters of any given ad if they are curious but to my knowledge, no law requires it. Maybe it's time to start having a conversation about the need advertising transpa…

Facebook publishes the ads. If someone asks Facebook to publish an illegal ad (or to do anything else that's illegal), Facebook should refuse. If you do something illegal because your users asked you to, it's still illegal. The article is pretty clear that publishing the ads is illegal.

Facebook is the medium through which the ads are published. The actus rea and mens rea are the advertisers.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#235

Post by peter303 » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:09 AM UTC

Linkedin verses common resume wisdom: In the US the conventional wisdom is you are never supposed to put a self photo in a resume (though that is common in other countries). However in Linkedin you cant achieve top status without a professional headshot. Plus that headshot appears as a thumbnail in many functions of Linkedin. So you are prejudiced by your gender, race and age just like a common Tinder profile.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#236

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:13 AM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #100

p1necone wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Male only employment ads are illegal, but does that mean Facebook should have to change their UI for each case where the rules around advertising are different, or should people posting advertising be required to follow the law?

Facebook needs to stop posting illegal ads, even if users request illegal ads. It's not my problem to decide how Facebook ensures that they obey the law -- it's their problem. Even if its really, really hard, it's still their problem. If it's impossible to achieve with technology, Facebook should leave the advertising business.

Balaclava sellers need to police bank robbery too. Too long they've gotten away with providing the means for these criminals. /s

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#237

Post by klosnet » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:16 AM UTC

Facebook is not a regulatory committee. This entire article is naive and annoying.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#238

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:17 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #21

patmcc wrote: post #7

I'm a bit mixed about this; it is clearly discriminatory to publish a job ad that says "women need not apply", but it doesn't feel inherently discriminatory to advertise a job in, say, "Men's Health" but not "Cosmopolitan" magazine. Or to advertise on a particular television channel or program (whose viewers may not match the population at large). That's just how advertising works. Is that crazy? Would this be differ…

No one is excluded though. A woman can buy Men's Health ; a man can buy Cosmopolitan . What Facebook is doing is enabling straight up exclusion of genders from advertising, which is completely different in the eyes of the law.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#239

Post by yAnonymous » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:18 AM UTC

When businesses decide they want to hire men, that's the kind of thing you have to deal with on a free market. This is true equality, all things considered.

What many people seem to want is forced equality, where they assume that women need an artificial advantage to be on equal terms, which is -you guessed it- discriminatory.

I don't see why anyone who seriously supports women's rights would want that and working with women who have earned their spot in the business, I certainly know that they don't want it, because it would devalue their achievements.

Re: Facebook Is Letting Job Advertisers Target Only Men

#240

Post by sgift » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 10:26 AM UTC

rspeer wrote: post #182

sgift wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A company is not there to solve stereotypes. That ties into the question if companies should have a responsibility to society or just be a vehicle to make money. Opinions differ on this. (Legality is another topic, but for the sake of this thread I propose to assume that this behavior is legal)

For the sake of the thread, you could read the article or have some awareness of the topic instead of assuming. > “The ads themselves are illegal,” Galen Sherwin, an ACLU lawyer, said. “It’s been established for five decades.”

For the sake of the thread you could read the other comment threads and see that the "it is illegal" comment chain was already discussed. But then you'd have to use your brain and couldn't just try a "Hurty durty, you didn't read the article" snipe, right?

And yes. People like you make me angry.