I recommend the book "Fire Your Boss" for anyone that has a job :)
I find two books with that title on Amazon, which do you mean? Both perhaps? :-)
The one by Stephen Pollan and Mark Levine, I haven't read the other one.
People start hating their jobs at 35
231–240 of 247 posts
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#232Earlier quoted context omitted.
The employment bubble you describe really only exists in the Bay Area. The majority of users on HN are not in the Bay Area: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3298905 People 35 and over, are somewhat likely to have families and find it difficult to relocate.
> The employment bubble you describe really only exists in the Bay Area. There are a lot of places where you get a job in this industry faster than you can say "Software Engineer", so it's definitely not only a Bay Area thing. NY/Berlin/London are just as bad from personal experience and as a rough estimate every city above 1mil population, is probably not too different.
For now. This site is also full of 20-something’s who were never in the workforce during a bear market. As someone who has lived through two, I can tell you that the demand for software engineers is not permanently robust. When the next tech downturn happens you will be grateful to have any job whatsoever. It truly sucks.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please take my comment as constructive criticism. I'm sure you have good intentions. I found your comment extremely patronizing to the person you're replying to. HN is an informal place where people feel comfortable to speak casually. It's not necessary to have perfect grammar in the comments. Going through the trouble of rewriting their comment to be more professional implies that the original commenter can't write…
Not the original poster but I didn’t take it that way. It came off as gentle, sincere help for someone probably looking for work. I frequently see people reaching out to people in need of work.
it is indeed patronizing and presumptuous, although i must assume it was well intentioned. i was adding commentary to an internet discussion board, not applying for a job. plus, they just made up a job profile which isn’t accurate, so even if i was hunting for a job here, it could be a distraction. i don’t speak to everyone i meet in person with the assumption that i am applying to a job with them and am quite amicable in life. and to be perfectly honest, the people who hire in the way i described aren’t places i want to work anyway.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I look at history and my ancestors, and am grateful that merely 2/3rds of my life is not "part of my purpose". Plus I don't actually hate work, even if it's not what I would be doing of my own accord, nor would I say it's entirely bereft of purpose. It feeds my family, fairly well all things considered, and I work in a part of the industry that is about protecting people and defending them, rather than abusing…
I won't know where to find it again, but I came across an article the other day that mentioned that a big reason why modern people have midlife crises is because we live longer. Our ancestors worked themselves to death (in the sense that they died before what we'd consider retirement age) and didn't have to worry about finding meaning outside of work.
I wouldn't think that's quite it. To be sure, anyone making it to middle age was tougher than the average peasant, but I think it's more that at that point, one would transition from caring for one's children to caring for one's grandchildren, and that takes a completely different mindset.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#235Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The employment bubble you describe really only exists in the Bay Area. There are a lot of places where you get a job in this industry faster than you can say "Software Engineer", so it's definitely not only a Bay Area thing. NY/Berlin/London are just as bad from personal experience and as a rough estimate every city above 1mil population, is probably not too different.
For now. This site is also full of 20-something’s who were never in the workforce during a bear market. As someone who has lived through two, I can tell you that the demand for software engineers is not permanently robust. When the next tech downturn happens you will be grateful to have any job whatsoever. It truly sucks.
A lot of us were around for '08, and while more rare there are still some holdovers from the original .com bust. The exponential growth of the field makes it skew young but you shouldn't assume HN has no wisdom at all on it.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes and no. Maybe a better way of phrasing would be, their effort will never be appropriately compensated. The problem is that much of the economy is pure bullshit, and it takes brainwashing to make the thing run/make people want stuff that is really of no value. So, there are very few jobs that provide real value - other than keeping the hamster wheel moving.
I think the brainwashing is somewhat voluntary. When fighting for survival is no longer necessary, most people enter a state of perpetual boredom which, at its extremes, becomes depression and anxiety. An economy of ever-flowing distractions is a great way to pass the time while waiting to die. In the meantime, we build up these absurd fantasies of how we're going to be important or do great things as a way of justif…
The problem is that what people in the company _as an aggregate_ is valuable, but each job is broken down into pieces that are less and less valuable so that no one person is irreplacable. This is Capitalism 101, and it makes each worker feel like their job is BS, but it keeps the company as a whole safe from a variety of problems.
My current solution is to basically be at a small enough company that I can actually see the impact of my work. Of course, that doesn't pay as well and it leads to other frustrations sometimes.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and then pragmatists at the bottom who come in in the morning, do their work, and find meaning in their lives elsewhere, like family or hobbies. How do those pragmatists deal with the fact that, summing job, commute and sleep, over 2/3 of their lives is not part of the purpose?
Like others have said, the purpose is to make money to enjoy the other 1/3. Bear in mind that different people will find meaning in different ways. If you find meaning in participating in the rat race, then by all means go for it. For me personally, I thought I _had_ to participate in the rat race, but this was a lie. I saw this scenario play out at my last corporate job: At that company it was typical for some manag…
> The developers who were _idealists_ would then overexert themselves: Work until midnight, always be tired and miss out on quality time with friends family. They thought they would get rewarded when promotions are doled out, where in actual fact they were being exploited by the managers.
Well you wouldn't want to promote the most gullible would you?
I think cynical might be a better description than pragmatist. A pragmatic person might see the reward in working hard but a cynical person will see through that. It's a shame cynicism has come to be seen as a negative trait (probably by people who like to manipulate you), a healthy dose of skepticism, cynicism and pessimism has served me well so far in life.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#238I think its because through experience people have figured out a lot of unspoken things about what its really like being an employee. They have figured out that its much more about connections and office politics than hard work. They have figured out that there is really no job security, and they could be one layoff wave away from unemployment. They have figured out that its much more about face time and spending lon…
I feel these two are somewhat contradictory or inconsistent: > They have figured out that the majority of their work, to their surprise is not actually that important or necessary. > They have figured out that they are never going to get payed the true value of their work If their work is not that important or necessary, isn't its true value also not too high?
An example of this is say, cigarette advertising, if you were doing this for a job, you'd sure as hell not want to be ripped off by the company, if you're going to sell your soul to the devil, he'd better be paying you fairly.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#23935 is probably the age where you have accepted the fact that you are just a cog in the machine, and the output will benefit someone other than yourself. For years leading up to it you already know youre just trading your life's precious hours away for money - which seems to have less and less purchasing power by the year. Once you realize the job is just a means of keeping yourself going, the perpetual cycle dawns on…
Sounds like you have never had a job outside the office. Go dig ditches for a construction company for six months and you'll run back to your 9-5 "slavery".
A part of me misses blue collar work. I'm a software engineer now and love my job but I'm often mentally exhausted, have less time to think, and find it much harder to stay in good physical condition. Besides, in a lot of meaningful ways, it isn't so different. I work for a great company but that doesn't change the fact that I'm giving up a certain amount of practical free will and allowing others to profit off of my work. It's not slavery but it doesn't always feel so great. I've never understood the mentality you're exhibiting. Someone else has it worse so nobody should complain? That's nonsense. Everyone should strive for better. Whether they're at the bottom or the top. That has always been the way of humanity.
Re: People start hating their jobs at 35
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could be. But also talking about all these other hypothetical adventurous people who are now broke and starving feed into our fears. I wonder if it just feels right to assume most people regret such decision because it matches what we worry about. Do you have any data to back up that sentiment?
No. I'm not aware of anyone doing a randomized controlled trial on going adventuring. I'm just pointing out that people who died naturally won't be able to tell their stories, so we're disproportionately likely to hear from the ones for whom it worked out ok.
For one person choosing adventure there must be at least ten watching him/her closely succeed/fail so in our current superconnected world I would assume not so happy stories are still preserved somewhere.