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Leap: An Online Community for Women

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#231

Post by ChiliConKanye »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #126

I have seen research that women who go to all female colleges tend to do better career-wise. So I don't think the idea of a female enclave as a means to inoculate women against problematic social norms is without merit. If you have never done this before, let me suggest that if you like the culture it currently has, you need to be really leery of making significant changes, such as deciding you will welcome men at so…

I have to wonder whether cause-and-effect have been reversed with respect to the female college findings. If my college experience is any indication, large numbers of women go to college specifically to find mates (or at least prioritize mate-finding over career prep), a phenomenon which would largely not exist at a women's-only college, and thereby skew the numbers in the way we observe.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#232

Post by RangerScience »

dictum wrote: post #101
RangerScience wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you identify as a woman and are interested in joining Leap You, as not a woman, are not being included. This is very different from exclusion. It also does not make any comment about male-ness equating with bad-ness; ironically, you are the one bringing in the idea that membership/non-membership in a category involves a quality judgement.

> You, as not a woman, are not being included. This is very different from exclusion Correct me as my interpretation may be completely off, but are you using a definition of "exclusion" that takes into account wider social factors? I'm inclined to see "not being included" as somebody's state until they actually attempt to enter. If they're denied entry (outright denied, or never allowed to enter and kept in limbo), "…

> "exclusion" that takes into account wider social factors

I don't think I am, since I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean by this, but I'd like to hear more.

> until they actually attempt to enter

Yes, basically. I should rephrase: the difference is not "not included" vs "excluded", but whether other people are deciding if you are part of the group or not.

> Sometimes exclusion is a good policy.

Also definitely! Both philosophically, and practically.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#234

Post by RangerScience »

cbcowans wrote: post #66
RangerScience wrote: post #41

As a man, I cannot access your site, but I am still curious which community model you're using - reddit, old school forum, feed (FB, insta)...? Do you have anything you're doing that you find particularly interesting, beyond the self-selection?

I put together a gif with some example content from Leap when I posted Leap on Product Hunt. You can check it out here if you like: https://www.producthunt.com/posts/leap-by-yc . I'd describe it as a hybrid. I'd love to hear which bucket you'd put it in.

Not a whole lot to go on - what does it look like once comments are posts?

But it looks like your topic discovery is "feed" style, although that could (I can't tell) lead into branching discussions (Reddit/HN) or sequential (FB/forums)

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#235

Post by louisswiss »

dang wrote: post #226
matt4077 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a certain style to HN discussions that feels completely natural if you've been here long enough, yet may appear excessively antagonistic to people not used to it. Specifically, 90%+ of all comments are of the "you're wrong, because..." variety. Note that there's nothing wrong with such comments: they make up a large part of any group's pub conversations as well, for example. Yet there are other sentiments tha…

I don't think you're being fair to the community here. It's true that such comments exist, and so do many other kinds. Many users share personal experiences. Many express vulnerability. Self-doubt, questions, and comments expanding on others' ideas are highly represented here, and we value them tremendously. I puzzled for years over why people would say things like "90%+ of all comments" that are so obviously (to me)…

A cynic might say that the content of your comment provides reason to disagree with the previous poster, whereas the comment itself could also be a reason to agree with them.

On a more serious note, I wonder whether it has something to do with the fact that on HN it is frowned upon to express agreement in comment form (that's what upvotes are for), however when disagreeing/expressing disapproval, it is accepted practice to explain why one disagrees (and rightly so in my opinion).

This could give the casual reader the impression that most of the interaction on HN is adversarial, simply because comments are more prominent than upvotes.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this dang.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#236

Post by codinghorror »

konogasa wrote: post #193

I expect this to be a controversial comment. I might just be overreacting. If you identify as a woman and are interested in joining Leap, please sign up for our beta here. I'm a trans woman who works in tech. I think it's dangerous to open a community for women to people who "identify as women". For one thing, there are plenty of women who do not "identify as women". For instance, older women may not really know what…

> Then you invite in to the community people who have been socialised as men, have grown up as men, have spent most of their professional lives as men and who have often contributed to exactly the kind of working environment that makes womens' lives difficult as tech workers. That's defeating the whole point of a "community where the core culture [will be] set by women".

Thank you for bringing this up, I had many of the same thoughts but it was not my place to say it. I think it is important, though.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#237

Post by archagon »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #206

Honest question, does HN feel unwelcoming or uncomfortable for women? In particular: “I’ve found that some conversations online escalate to shouting matches quickly” do female HN users identify this with HN? Not saying Leap shouldn’t exist or anything, I’m just wondering if HN has these particular issues that I haven’t personally recognised.

I'm a guy, and it becomes very clear just how aggressive and debate-based male-majority communities are after spending some time in communities with a large percentage of women. There's seemingly no joy or "chill" at all — just a constant clash of ideas and ideologies. Not to mention the relentless sarcasm, snark, and snippiness, if not outright mockery. It's very rare to see someone say they're sorry or to change their mind. Honestly, it's fatiguing.

Which is not to say that many women wouldn't enjoy that kind of high-octane environment! Hey, different strokes etc. All I know is that for me personally — someone who goes online to have fun, not to be right — it's a lot more pleasant to hang out in mixed-gender communities than in male-dominated ones.

(Then again, here I am on HN, slingin' ideas again, sooo...)

(Also, I have to apologize for responding to a question directed towards women in the most stereotypical "as a dude" kind of way. To be honest, I should have probably held off...)

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#238

Post by beat »

fortythirteen wrote: post #127
fruzz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish your experience was unique. A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. It would have likely diminished her future prospects. A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. Women at a previous employment reported not being taken as seriously as men in meetings, and being passed over for promotions in favour of less qualified men. A friend repor…

Disclaimer: not in any way attempting to diminish your experience. Only adding my own, to broaden the conversation. It can be a similar experience for men (although it's definitely not something talked about). I've had a female coworker walk up behind me repeatedly and give me unsolicited back rubs and ask me if I wanted to go to an empty office. I've been flirted with and hit on repeatedly. I've had a group of women…

It's not "broadening" the conversation. What you're doing is recentering the conversation as a "Men are victims of women too!"

As a rhetorical device, it's so common it has a name. It's called "derailing".

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#239

Post by allergeek »

byproxy wrote: post #35
cbcowans wrote: post #2

Hi! I'm the creator of Leap. Glad to answer questions here.

I'm XY and won't be able to contribute to the community, which I have no problem with. However, I do like to read fruitful conversation (via hackernews, reddit, online comment platforms, etc.). I suppose readership would also be private and limited to women? I definitely understand why that'd be the case, but it does seem to make it more difficult for me to get a balanced perspective from platforms that are majority…

It would be indeed interesting to be able to make some conversations public (upon some agreement), or to start public threads, although in read-only mode for non-members.

It also may give a clue to other women as to how exactly may the Leap community be beneficial for them, or what’s the culture like, before they decide if they need to join.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#240

Post by studio_monolith »

fruzz wrote: post #184
cheez wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the solution is what? To impose solutions on the individual who never would have done anything untoward anyway?

Creating an online space that empower women, like Leap, is one example of a solution.

Yeah I'm sure it won't lead to any false accusations or men being fired because of mob mentality. Also your point about women being asked on dates is laughable.
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