Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

news9.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 517 posts

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#231

Post by woodman »

Roboprog wrote: post #79

Welcome to the post-Reagan era, kids. This stuff really took off during the 80s war on drugs. (which is about as successful as the war on alcohol was - for gangsters dealing) If only Thatcherism / Reaganism never happened... (and Laffer, Friedman and all the other related right wing propaganda that's been catapulted down our throats) I suppose things will eventually get bad enough that people will eventually realize…

Have you got a specific beef with Friedman, or are you just generally complaining about prominent conservatives from the 80s? What position did he take that would support civil asset forfeiture?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#233

Post by 1_2__3 »

stackus wrote: post #50
wccrawford wrote: post #16

This reads like The Onion. I can't believe they're serious. >"If you can prove can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized. ... Legit reason? How am I supposed to prove where every cent came from? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

You're never charged with a crime, the object is and it is not given representation. So there's no "innocent until proven guilty" for inanimate objects. Despicable, and akin to highway robbery in my opinion.

This is flatly incorrect. This is a civil proceeding, neither you nor your property are charged with a crime. Instead, a civil (not criminal) forfeiture proceeding is initiated against your property.

I'm not just being pedantic, this is part of why it's so incredibly fucked. They have, no exaggeration, taken a portion of the criminal legal system with all the constraints and due process requirements there, excised it with a legislative scalpel and grafted it back on to the civil system.

I honestly to this day don't understand why government is allowed any access at all to the civil system as a plaintiff, at least not beyond the local level.

Oh wait, yes I do understand: It's specifically to fuck the people over.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#234

Post by Declanomous »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #223
japhyr wrote: post #212

So a highway patrol officer can ask to see my license, and I'm supposed to show it. Now they're asking to see my entire wallet?! I'm assuming we're all well within our rights to refuse to hand over our wallets?

This is a good question and I like a non-IANAL response. As far as I can tell police officers assume any resistance to request as proof of guilt. This kind of thinking has happened historically in the past and there's no reason to believe it's not happening now.

I believe searching your car and searching your person constitute two entirely different searches. If your wallet is on the seat next to you, the police could theoretically use that as grounds for a search. If your wallet is in your pocket, and they take your wallet off you as part of a search of your vehicle, you'd probably have a better chance of successfully claiming unreasonable search and seizure.

I'm not a lawyer either though, so take that for what it is worth.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#235

Post by orbitingpluto »

dpc59 wrote: post #215
sangfroid wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have not been charged with a crime, can you just refuse to hand over your cards?

Then they charge you for obstruction (or whatever it's called in oklahoma, in french it's called "entrave à un agent de la paix")

Isn't the question, "obstructing what?"

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#236

Post by mcbits »

khedoros wrote: post #214
dragonwriter wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're never charged with a crime, the object is and it is not given representation. No one and nothing is charged with a crime in civil asset forfeiture.

But you do end up with amusing case names like "United States v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U... ). The currency is defined as the defendant in the case.

I feel like I'm living in the Matrix when I see things like this. There are people out there - lawyers and judges, who must be fairly smart to finish law school - who think "United States v. $124,700" makes perfect sense.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#237

Post by cortesoft »

vitd wrote: post #193
cglace wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is wrong. ERAD card scanners were first developed around 2012 for the science and technology arm of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to combat the use of prepaid debit cards by drug cartels to transport drug money, according to a Homeland Security media release. Since then, some law enforcement agencies around the country have adopted the technology. According to ERAD Group’s patent for the device…

> the system disguises the balance request as a typical vendor request to prevent alerting suspects that law enforcement is checking the card Wouldn't that go against the credit card (or pre-paid card) merchant agreement? And wouldn't ERAD have to have signed such an agreement in order to access the credit card network?

They might have a deal with the merchants?

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#239

Post by cehrnrooth »

dpc59 wrote: post #215
sangfroid wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have not been charged with a crime, can you just refuse to hand over your cards?

Then they charge you for obstruction (or whatever it's called in oklahoma, in french it's called "entrave à un agent de la paix")

That seems questionable, how can they charge you with obstruction when you can just not answer any questions you're not legally obligated to answer.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#240

Post by mahyarm »

1_2__3 wrote: post #233
stackus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're never charged with a crime, the object is and it is not given representation. So there's no "innocent until proven guilty" for inanimate objects. Despicable, and akin to highway robbery in my opinion.

This is flatly incorrect. This is a civil proceeding, neither you nor your property are charged with a crime. Instead, a civil (not criminal) forfeiture proceeding is initiated against your property. I'm not just being pedantic, this is part of why it's so incredibly fucked. They have, no exaggeration, taken a portion of the criminal legal system with all the constraints and due process requirements there, excised it…

Sue a contractor for not upholding your contract with the federal / state government? Like road building or whatever else.
Post reply on HN