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Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

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Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#221
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Currently all my stuff fits into two backpacks (a big backpacker one and a small one for the laptop). The only thing I miss from my old stationary lifestyle is a regular gym, sparring partners and a coach. The only thing I don't understand about living in the googleplex is sex. Logistics is everything - I remember once dealing with a month of involuntary celibacy due to a bad living situation. NOT an experience…

Most people go through much longer periods of celibacy than that on a regular basis when outside of long term relationships. For most people, the singles life is relatively sex-less. Presumably living on campus isn't a choice that most people make in the first place when they are in long term relationships and/or have regular options of companionship.

Even people IN long term relationships go through much longer periods of celibacy than that. Illness, long distance relationships, military deployments...

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#222
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives and works in the bay area, you cannot buy a house with a software engineer's salary, not unless it is a very poor neighborhood, in which case you're contributing to gentrification, or you want to drive 2 hours from Pleasanton. I say that as a software engineer home owner who bought a house before the prices sky rocketed again in 2011. I wouldn't be able to afford my own house right now.

> I wouldn't be able to afford my own house right now. Sounds like a good time to sell!

It's our home, not an investment, and where would we live if we sold?

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#223
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cities where a $140k salary exist in the same quantity as in the bay area are roughly equivalent with respect to the cost to live there. A job in SF that pays $140k might fetch $60-$90k in most of the rest of the US, with higher salaries being more rare. So while there are lots of places where $140k is practically king-like, the number of positions with that salary are both hotly competed for and far fewer in num…

This is the paradox. You can phrase it as a question: Why don't blubsoft or blub.ly open offices in city X and continue to pay the same salaries there . Relocated employees would be richer and blub.ly should have an easier time hiring. Obvious'y this doesn't happen even though a simple common sense "story" suggests that it should. Hence unintuitive. I'm not saying that individuals don't have their reasons for doing w…

High rents is an effect of bigger corporate dynamics, not the cause.

Corporations generally locate the highest-priority projects in the head office to minimize communication costs. The executives are at the head offices, the largest concentration of staff is there, and you can pick the top employees from a larger pool. That means that if you're an ambitious young professional, you go to where the highest-priority projects are, because they will benefit your career the most in the future. This further reinforces the need to locate high-priority projects at headquarters.

I saw this play out at Google. The most ambitious, career-oriented young employees would move from NYC, Pittsburgh, or Boston to work in Mountain View, where they could have their pick of projects. Meanwhile, more family-oriented employees would move from Mountain View to Pittsburgh, Michigan, etc. to enjoy a higher standard of living and be closer to family. Who gets promoted with a big raise? The folks who work on the highest-priority projects. What does that do to area rents? It makes them rise in line with the highest-paid employees in that area.

You might ask why corporations don't move their whole headquarters to another location. Some do - Wells Fargo moved most of its operations from San Francisco to Minneapolis in search of cheaper labor. However, the same dynamic between employees within a company also plays out between companies within an industry. Google can't move its headquarters and operations because most of the interesting developments in the tech industry - startups to buy, startups to fund, new technologies to keep up with, key employees to hire - are in the Bay Area, and moving to say, Detroit means that they'll miss out on the cross-pollination of ideas that keeps them relevant in their industry. Note that this is not a serious issue for Wells Fargo, whose entire brand is based on "We're stolid and conservative, and we may not be in the forefront of financial innovation, but we will keep your money safe."

This dynamic played out a hundred years ago too - Detroit became Motown, USA because everyone involved in automobile manufacture was incentivized to move there, Hollywood became Hollywood because everyone in the film industry was incentivized to move there, etc. When those industries were vital and growing, they faced the same pressure on rents and economics as the Bay Area does today.

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#224
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to be in silicon valley. The only reason for Google to be anywhere is employees and to a lesser extent investors, lawyers and other service providers of the cluster. It's mostly employees though. Why are they there, paying high salaries if they could be getting the same for less elsewhere?

Or, what might they be getting (or think they're getting) that they wouldn't (think that they would) be able to get elsewhere? Maybe they're concerned about lead times for hiring new people (stealing someone from a competitor vs all new employees needing to move first)? Supposedly one of the reasons that Silicon Valley did so well, is that California doesn't allow non-compete agreements. Perhaps there's actually some…

There's a benefit to everyone in the industry for exchanging employees with your competitors often, but there's a cost to your company. Hence, geographical areas where that happens do well overall, but the individual companies involved hate it and want it to stop. It's very much a prisoner's dilemma situation.

Similarly, technological developments that benefit everyone in the industry are good for the industry as a whole, but bad for each individual firm in the industry, which now face increased competition. That's why big companies often try to spread FUD around "open" alternatives to their core business.

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is the paradox. In order to make cheap housing you'd have to destroy all the open space and low density zoning that made all the tech and VC people want to live here in the first place. Besides the current economy isn't permanent at all. The tech bubble will bust and this will all go back to normal in a few years. People who are living here for the long haul, and not just for the gold rush don't want it to g…

I don't think it's really true. Do you think all those parking lots and single story buildings in downtown Mountain View are the attraction for tech workers and entrepreneurs? I think replacing all that junk on the Caltrain corridor with 3 or 5 story apartments and townhouses would solve the housing problem without consuming any more open space.

It would solve the problem for tech workers and entrepreneurs. It would piss off a number of retirees who have been in Mountain View since it was fruit orchards and like it because it's not SF. The latter group currently holds a lock on the city council.

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the plot of Oryx and Crake (I did not like the book, but it was an interesting plot): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/46756.Oryx_and_Crake

... must not down vote ... all opinions are equally valid ... even when they're wrong ...

Thanks for not downvoting :) . I did not get if you liked the book a lot, or else if you found the plot awful :) .

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been living in the Bay Area since the dotcom days and they've been asking the same question since I've been around. Until people in tech stop making money, I doubt SV will collapse, but it will go through boom and bust cycles. But the booms tend to be huge and the busts tend to be not as bad. I had the opportunity to get a job in Seattle at Amazon about 10 years ago. I would have taken a paycut, but with the 0%…

I'm curious why the weather argument comes up so often. Aren't we, as "software people", under a roof and in front of a screen most of the time anyways? Then again, I'm "deep inside" Europe, so I have no idea how bad the weather over there really is.

Yeah, we're in front of a screen... when we're at work. The Bay Area has a big culture of outdoor sports, though, including for tech workers. Lots of bikers, lots of hikers, lots of lots of plain old hanging out in public parks.

And many of those "indoor" work spaces try as hard as possible to have natural light.

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#229
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 16, does this mean that you can't ordinarily sleep in the back of the van, but they allow it if drunk to discourage drunk driving, or that you're not considered to be drinking and driving if you stay in the back? I'm just amused at the idea of keeping a bottle of around for emergency legal compliance.

In some places (including much of the US, I believe), you can be arrested for drunk driving even if you're not in the driver's seat. Here's some info on California's laws [1]. The idea is that you are in the car and capable of driving it, even if you're not in the driver's seat yet. According to the urban legend, the trick is to get rid of your keys if you need to sleep in the car while drunk (i.e., swap keys with a…

Germany seems to be more lax. When I started to drive I got this advice: Always keep a half-empty bottle of vodka (or anything) in your trunk. If you have an accident while driving drunken. Get the bottle before the police arrives. Tell them: That accident was such a shock, I had drink something.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. I never tested this. Do NOT drive drunken!

Re: Google Employees Secretly Live on Campus to Avoid Paying Rent

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why the weather argument comes up so often. Aren't we, as "software people", under a roof and in front of a screen most of the time anyways? Then again, I'm "deep inside" Europe, so I have no idea how bad the weather over there really is.

The weather in the Bay Area is essentially perfect. The scenery is beautiful, and you can see the ocean, the desert, magnificent forests and the mountains all in the same day. It doesn't get too hot, it doesn't get too cold, it rains only for a few months out of the year, and it never gets very humid. Living in the Bay Area makes you spoiled and lazy because it is too comfortable. As the piece [1] by Mary Schmich (an…

It's strange. I grew up in the Bay Area (Santa Cruz and South San Jose) and am weather-neutral. I've had stints in Sweden, Portland and Arizona (all pretty extreme) and none of the climates really affected my life too much. Most of my friends are the same way. Anecdotal, but maybe the weather effect is more pronounced on transplants who don't take it for granted?

The reason I chose to move back has more to do with the sheer amount of stuff to do. And the good food :)

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