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Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

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221–230 of 248 posts

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do twin studies rule out "environmental" that is, non-genetic, causes. Twins look alike, so if there are ideas about how people who look alike ought to act alike we would be expect a correlation between genes and behaviour that has nothing to do with the content of the genes. Rather, that behaviour would be motivated by similar ideas.

> How do twin studies rule out "environmental" that is, non-genetic, causes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_study

I have pointed out that there can be correlations between genes and behaviour that are not caused by genes but by culture. Your link is irrelevant.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#222
post #12

I can only sympathize with what Evan and Stephen went through. We must break the stigma against mental illness. It is far too wide reaching and impactful not to be at the forefront of technology innovation and health research. I challenge new startups to start attacking depression and anxiety disorders. The best solution to depression is often simply finding what works for you through trial and error of available opt…

notify me when you find a solution.

voted down for being depressed, very classy hn

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note, I'm quoting that passage because I (and scientific evidence) disagree with it. Thoughts, feelings, behaviours, and mental illness most certainly have biological bases, which makes Szalz's theories pretty loony.

Szasz entire screed appears to be based on mental illnesses not being able to be concretely diagnosed or detected, but then jumping to the conclusion that they are completely made up and abused by society to control everyone's behavior. Once you "accept" his conclusion, it doesn't seem possible to be argued out of it until science advances to an arbitrary point where one feels it adequately explains mental illnesses.…

You have admitted you don't understand Szasz's position, presumably you should be interested in finding out more, see: http://fallibleliving.com/thinkers/szasz and the reading list at the bottom.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#224
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? If i was depressed, the last person I'd want to talk to about it are my hacker friends. The vast majority of the population simply have no idea how to talk to mentally ill people.

> Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? Excuse me, but what "formal background" is that? It's not as though psychology is a science, or that psychologists know what causes depression or how to treat it -- public evidence clearly proves they do not. The field of psychology is such a disaster that the director of the NIMH recently rul…

The DSM is not the "bible" of psychology, but psychiatry. They are two completely different areas of science, and the therapists I've talked to over the years have all, more or less, been very useful for getting a handle on my depression and understanding myself and why I operate like I do. I know a tremendous amount about this topic, having gone through several nasty bouts myself - and having a B.S. in psychology (and computer engineering, as well, which is why I'm on HN)

Psychiatry, however, IMO, is for the most part, useless. Psychiatrists should only stick to dealing with things that have a predominately biological basis, like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Garden variety stuff like the "common cold" form of depression should be dealt with using talk therapy. Every psychiatrist I've talked to in an attempt to get a mild antidepressant has resulted in frustration - they are all arrogant SOBs as far as I'm concerned who want to stick you onto the heavy duty addictive crap before trying the easier to deal with drugs - as an engineer, my attitude is try the simpler solution first and only if that doesn't work, rewrite bloody everything (if my brain was a software program...) So I've had to self medicate - I found research indicating the particular subtype of depression I suffer from would be best treated with bupripion, but the last doctor ignored me... so now I am going to pretend I'm a smoker and buy Zyban over the internet to get what I am sure I need. Or I could use nicotine patches as a mild antidepressant (according to the latest research). As a hacker, I see nothing wrong with hacking my body :)

But adding a drug into the system known as "me" isn't going to magically fix everything - I have to change my behavior as well, which is harder and that sort of thing require understanding psychological principles, not psychiatric blather about neurotransmitters being the root of all the problems. It's like people want to fix a software problem by replacing chips on the motherboard! And they aren't even sure exactly what chips!

Scientology is a crock of BS, but they do have a good point about psychiatry being a problematic profession. I would never discard what I've learned through psychotherapy, but drugs... treating mental illness strictly as a medical / mechanical issue is very shortsighted.

The trend over the past few decades has been an increasing emphasis on the biological aspects of 'mental illness' - when you examine the history of the two fields, you can see a swing between the two extremes - e.g. when Freud's theories started getting attention, an increased emphasis on the psychological aspects of mental issues became prominent in society and it become fashionable to be seeing a psychoanalyst.

But psychoanalysis, like that promoted by Freud, isn't that helpful for the most part in solving problems, so the trend started swinging back to biological especially after research etc started uncovering the biological aspects of mental illness (serotonin, LSD research, etc). Thus the 'magic bullets' became drugs and since they are cheaper and more profitable than talk therapy (and "easier" for the patient as well) that became the emphasis.

For some reason, viewing the whole issue as the interaction between psychological issues and biological factors isn't viewed as important - as an engineer who understand this stuff better than the usual layperson (though I'm not an expert) it is frustrating because it is so obviously just good engineering to view a person as a system - biology matters but so does environmental issues (family history, current life of the patient...) Drugs are cheaper and more profitable...

But yes, the DSM has gone quite downhill over the years in its usefulness. So if you change, in your post, "psychology" with "psychiatry" I won't down vote you.

And if one's depression is caused by environmental issues, like work related stress, or family, or "meaning of one's life" - they are not going to go away once you start taking the right drug or zapping the depression away. And thus it'll only come back eventually.

Another big problem is that "depression" is such a fuzzy label - there are many subtypes and each need to be dealt with in a specific way. I came across a book a few years ago that correlated what was known about different areas of the brain and their function and how different drugs affected each differently - i.e. something leading to theories on what type of antidepressant would be best for a patient given the symptoms they were exhibiting. Thus my theory on why bupripion would be better for me than Paxil (which was useless). But like with the low fat vs low carb controversy of dieting, medicine is afflicted with fads and trends - just like IT (are all problems solved with NoSQL? of course not, but lots of people seem to think that. same with the virus known as Agile)

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#225
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without sounding insensitive, may I ask what it is - that you think - that is at the root of this stripe of depression that you seem to be well acquainted with. I know that this sort of thing cannot be easily summed up. However, most of us on the outside have little clue about what sets these things in motion, for various individuals, in the first place. Broadly and typically, is it a fundamental disillusionment with…

I'll chime in here, if you don't mind - I'm bipolar[1]. My health often deteriorates for short periods of time, perhaps a day or two, sometimes a week or so. In these situations there is often some trigger - high workload, poor sleep hygiene etc. My mood doesn't usually reach such an extreme that it causes any significant difficulty day to day. Episodes of illness that have a significant detrimental impact on day to…

Do you keep a sleep diary? Are you aware of when your patterns are changing?

One thing that I find helps is a 'mental contract' with my partner.. if she thinks I'm getting elevated etc. then she has a contract which she can enforce and basically frog march me off to the doctors to get a strong sleeping pill for a week or whatever it'll take. Note, she's never had to use it, but having it has given both she and I peace of mind.

7 years and counting here.

And, while I was going to post this on a throwaway account, whatever, my own trigger for bipolar was a 10 day vipassana meditation course. There's audio etc. detailing why I went on the course, what it was like to be manic, sectioned under the mental health act, Depression (with a capital D), and getting better again... at : http://livingvipassana.blogspot.com

Now, 7 years clear, doing very well, and, while I'd not repeat the experience, I feel like I learned a heck of a lot about what humans can go through.

And trying to walk on water was fun ;) (didn't work)

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#226
post #219
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason to put the sticker on there is to spread awareness and end the stigma. Some people think that mental illness isn't a real illness. But if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor.

> if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor. Yes -- except there is no such thing as a "mind doctor", at least in a scientific sense. Psychiatrists and psychologists cannot treat depression, and increasing amounts of neuroscientific evidence demonstrate that depression is not a mental illness, it's a physica…

No, all it shows is that there is a physical component - and probably for only some people. It is hardly the same as something like diabetes. On that note, I am now going to a therapy group for people with diabetes, because the NHS has realized the psychological aspects of dealing with diabetes are important enough that giving people support (in that manner) are cost effective over the person's lifetime - i.e. they learn how to deal with the psychological stress of it and so the long term consequences are lessened at a lower cost for the health care system. Thank god I do NOT live in the US anymore!

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#227
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother committed suicide. He died for nothing,and nobody in the family even knows why he died. 10 years later, I feel like I dont care he died anymore, I just cant feel sorry for people committing suicide, it accomplishes nothing,except destroying a family ,making relatives feel guilty all their life. Suicide is the most selfish thing one can do, that's my opinion.

I used to think the same thing. I have never been suicidal so I don't know from personal experience, but I recall reading something that helped me understand suicide as something more than self-absorption. That the pain of deep depression is so real and intense that it can be compared to physical pain, and when it gets strong enough, simply ending it becomes its own imperative. That suicide is like jumping from a bur…

Suicide, ingestion of drugs (incl. alcohol), addiction, religious fervor - all of these can be thought of as ways to escape the weight of "the self". A more abstract theory than "neurotransmitters being out of balance", but more useful perhaps in understanding what compels a person to act in those ways. People who commit suicide out of the blue, surprising friends and family, probably felt they were living a lie in some way, and couldn't see any way to get out of that other than escaping it entirely. If someone says "but they seemed to have it all under control" then ... how does anyone know what goes on in the head of another person?

I'm surprised I see no mention of the poem "Richard Cory" whenever this topic arises

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#228
No one has posted a link to this poem which I learned about ... many years ago in high school. It has always stayed with me and touches upon the fundamental philosophical issues around suicide - survivor's guilt, the "why?", the essential loneliness of every individual...

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/richard-cory/

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#229
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason to put the sticker on there is to spread awareness and end the stigma. Some people think that mental illness isn't a real illness. But if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor.

Lung cancer and most other physical ailments have legitimate, objective diagnostic criteria. You get a test or two and find out if you have a specific disease. I.e., science. Psychiatry, except in rare cases, does nothing of the sort. Most discussion about mental illness (including your post) is an attempt to induce people to apply fallacious reasoning about it - you've developed intuitions about cancer, now go incor…

Does love exist? If so, what is the simple, legitimate, objective diagnosis test for it?

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#230
post #219
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason to put the sticker on there is to spread awareness and end the stigma. Some people think that mental illness isn't a real illness. But if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor.

> if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor. Yes -- except there is no such thing as a "mind doctor", at least in a scientific sense. Psychiatrists and psychologists cannot treat depression, and increasing amounts of neuroscientific evidence demonstrate that depression is not a mental illness, it's a physica…

There are a lot of people who have been helped by "mind doctors".
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