Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do twin studies rule out "environmental" that is, non-genetic, causes. Twins look alike, so if there are ideas about how people who look alike ought to act alike we would be expect a correlation between genes and behaviour that has nothing to do with the content of the genes. Rather, that behaviour would be motivated by similar ideas.
> How do twin studies rule out "environmental" that is, non-genetic, causes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_study
Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
221–230 of 248 posts
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#222I can only sympathize with what Evan and Stephen went through. We must break the stigma against mental illness. It is far too wide reaching and impactful not to be at the forefront of technology innovation and health research. I challenge new startups to start attacking depression and anxiety disorders. The best solution to depression is often simply finding what works for you through trial and error of available opt…
notify me when you find a solution.
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just a note, I'm quoting that passage because I (and scientific evidence) disagree with it. Thoughts, feelings, behaviours, and mental illness most certainly have biological bases, which makes Szalz's theories pretty loony.
Szasz entire screed appears to be based on mental illnesses not being able to be concretely diagnosed or detected, but then jumping to the conclusion that they are completely made up and abused by society to control everyone's behavior. Once you "accept" his conclusion, it doesn't seem possible to be argued out of it until science advances to an arbitrary point where one feels it adequately explains mental illnesses.…
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? If i was depressed, the last person I'd want to talk to about it are my hacker friends. The vast majority of the population simply have no idea how to talk to mentally ill people.
> Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? Excuse me, but what "formal background" is that? It's not as though psychology is a science, or that psychologists know what causes depression or how to treat it -- public evidence clearly proves they do not. The field of psychology is such a disaster that the director of the NIMH recently rul…
Psychiatry, however, IMO, is for the most part, useless. Psychiatrists should only stick to dealing with things that have a predominately biological basis, like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Garden variety stuff like the "common cold" form of depression should be dealt with using talk therapy. Every psychiatrist I've talked to in an attempt to get a mild antidepressant has resulted in frustration - they are all arrogant SOBs as far as I'm concerned who want to stick you onto the heavy duty addictive crap before trying the easier to deal with drugs - as an engineer, my attitude is try the simpler solution first and only if that doesn't work, rewrite bloody everything (if my brain was a software program...) So I've had to self medicate - I found research indicating the particular subtype of depression I suffer from would be best treated with bupripion, but the last doctor ignored me... so now I am going to pretend I'm a smoker and buy Zyban over the internet to get what I am sure I need. Or I could use nicotine patches as a mild antidepressant (according to the latest research). As a hacker, I see nothing wrong with hacking my body :)
But adding a drug into the system known as "me" isn't going to magically fix everything - I have to change my behavior as well, which is harder and that sort of thing require understanding psychological principles, not psychiatric blather about neurotransmitters being the root of all the problems. It's like people want to fix a software problem by replacing chips on the motherboard! And they aren't even sure exactly what chips!
Scientology is a crock of BS, but they do have a good point about psychiatry being a problematic profession. I would never discard what I've learned through psychotherapy, but drugs... treating mental illness strictly as a medical / mechanical issue is very shortsighted.
The trend over the past few decades has been an increasing emphasis on the biological aspects of 'mental illness' - when you examine the history of the two fields, you can see a swing between the two extremes - e.g. when Freud's theories started getting attention, an increased emphasis on the psychological aspects of mental issues became prominent in society and it become fashionable to be seeing a psychoanalyst.
But psychoanalysis, like that promoted by Freud, isn't that helpful for the most part in solving problems, so the trend started swinging back to biological especially after research etc started uncovering the biological aspects of mental illness (serotonin, LSD research, etc). Thus the 'magic bullets' became drugs and since they are cheaper and more profitable than talk therapy (and "easier" for the patient as well) that became the emphasis.
For some reason, viewing the whole issue as the interaction between psychological issues and biological factors isn't viewed as important - as an engineer who understand this stuff better than the usual layperson (though I'm not an expert) it is frustrating because it is so obviously just good engineering to view a person as a system - biology matters but so does environmental issues (family history, current life of the patient...) Drugs are cheaper and more profitable...
But yes, the DSM has gone quite downhill over the years in its usefulness. So if you change, in your post, "psychology" with "psychiatry" I won't down vote you.
And if one's depression is caused by environmental issues, like work related stress, or family, or "meaning of one's life" - they are not going to go away once you start taking the right drug or zapping the depression away. And thus it'll only come back eventually.
Another big problem is that "depression" is such a fuzzy label - there are many subtypes and each need to be dealt with in a specific way. I came across a book a few years ago that correlated what was known about different areas of the brain and their function and how different drugs affected each differently - i.e. something leading to theories on what type of antidepressant would be best for a patient given the symptoms they were exhibiting. Thus my theory on why bupripion would be better for me than Paxil (which was useless). But like with the low fat vs low carb controversy of dieting, medicine is afflicted with fads and trends - just like IT (are all problems solved with NoSQL? of course not, but lots of people seem to think that. same with the virus known as Agile)
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
Without sounding insensitive, may I ask what it is - that you think - that is at the root of this stripe of depression that you seem to be well acquainted with. I know that this sort of thing cannot be easily summed up. However, most of us on the outside have little clue about what sets these things in motion, for various individuals, in the first place. Broadly and typically, is it a fundamental disillusionment with…
I'll chime in here, if you don't mind - I'm bipolar[1]. My health often deteriorates for short periods of time, perhaps a day or two, sometimes a week or so. In these situations there is often some trigger - high workload, poor sleep hygiene etc. My mood doesn't usually reach such an extreme that it causes any significant difficulty day to day. Episodes of illness that have a significant detrimental impact on day to…
One thing that I find helps is a 'mental contract' with my partner.. if she thinks I'm getting elevated etc. then she has a contract which she can enforce and basically frog march me off to the doctors to get a strong sleeping pill for a week or whatever it'll take. Note, she's never had to use it, but having it has given both she and I peace of mind.
7 years and counting here.
And, while I was going to post this on a throwaway account, whatever, my own trigger for bipolar was a 10 day vipassana meditation course. There's audio etc. detailing why I went on the course, what it was like to be manic, sectioned under the mental health act, Depression (with a capital D), and getting better again... at : http://livingvipassana.blogspot.com
Now, 7 years clear, doing very well, and, while I'd not repeat the experience, I feel like I learned a heck of a lot about what humans can go through.
And trying to walk on water was fun ;) (didn't work)
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another reason to put the sticker on there is to spread awareness and end the stigma. Some people think that mental illness isn't a real illness. But if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor.
> if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor. Yes -- except there is no such thing as a "mind doctor", at least in a scientific sense. Psychiatrists and psychologists cannot treat depression, and increasing amounts of neuroscientific evidence demonstrate that depression is not a mental illness, it's a physica…
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
My brother committed suicide. He died for nothing,and nobody in the family even knows why he died. 10 years later, I feel like I dont care he died anymore, I just cant feel sorry for people committing suicide, it accomplishes nothing,except destroying a family ,making relatives feel guilty all their life. Suicide is the most selfish thing one can do, that's my opinion.
I used to think the same thing. I have never been suicidal so I don't know from personal experience, but I recall reading something that helped me understand suicide as something more than self-absorption. That the pain of deep depression is so real and intense that it can be compared to physical pain, and when it gets strong enough, simply ending it becomes its own imperative. That suicide is like jumping from a bur…
I'm surprised I see no mention of the poem "Richard Cory" whenever this topic arises
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#228Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another reason to put the sticker on there is to spread awareness and end the stigma. Some people think that mental illness isn't a real illness. But if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor.
Lung cancer and most other physical ailments have legitimate, objective diagnostic criteria. You get a test or two and find out if you have a specific disease. I.e., science. Psychiatry, except in rare cases, does nothing of the sort. Most discussion about mental illness (including your post) is an attempt to induce people to apply fallacious reasoning about it - you've developed intuitions about cancer, now go incor…
Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another reason to put the sticker on there is to spread awareness and end the stigma. Some people think that mental illness isn't a real illness. But if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor.
> if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor. Yes -- except there is no such thing as a "mind doctor", at least in a scientific sense. Psychiatrists and psychologists cannot treat depression, and increasing amounts of neuroscientific evidence demonstrate that depression is not a mental illness, it's a physica…