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Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

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Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#71

Post by rqebmm »

ceejayoz wrote: post #51
xenophanes wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there's other bad things in the world, too. What's your point? Sometimes people who escape criminal justice via psychiatry get similar levels of freedom. Sometimes significantly less freedom! It can be a way to imprison people for an indeterminate sentence which may last longer than the maximum prison term for their offense. And, sometimes it's quite a lot like they are turned loose. All of these happen.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/1136/Excuse-Insanity-Empirical-da... "Defendants who asserted an insanity defense at trial, and who were ultimately found guilty of their charges, served significantly longer sentences than defendants tried on similar charges who did not assert the insanity defense. Unsuccessful NGRI pleaders are incarcerated for a 22 percent longer time than individuals who never raise the plea." Citations…

There's probably a strong selection bias here though. If one's trying the insanity defense it's either a.) they're insane and really didn't know what was going on, or b.) they have no other defense and are going for a hail mary. People in both camps are very unlikely to receive shortened sentences or early parole.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#72

Post by marvin »

xenophanes wrote: post #17
seancoleman wrote: post #2

I can only sympathize with what Evan and Stephen went through. We must break the stigma against mental illness. It is far too wide reaching and impactful not to be at the forefront of technology innovation and health research. I challenge new startups to start attacking depression and anxiety disorders. The best solution to depression is often simply finding what works for you through trial and error of available opt…

> We must break the stigma against mental illness How? People are labelled mentally ill IFF they do things that have a stigma attached.

Please, just stop. You are disrespectful, rude and wrong to boot. Show some restraint, this is a thread to mourn someone who just died under violent circumstances.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#73

Post by Mz »

badclient wrote: post #66
Mz wrote: post #24

I get the impression that this is a long, polite way of saying Steve committed suicide. The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. My…

If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. 100%, although I wish we talked more about the challenge of determining that someone is suicidal. Here's what I wrestle with the most about this. I fear that if I "misdiagnose" someone as suicidal, that I might have now given them the idea that there is such a thing as su…

I am not shy. I tell my kids when I am suicidal. They still live with me and monitor my medical issues closely, so they know when I am being really, really wonky and not just bitching, if that makes sense.

It helps that I have an especially close relationship to them. Also, they were raised by me, so are well educated in certain social paradigms.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#74

Post by scott_s »

xenophanes wrote: post #29
Mz wrote: post #24

I get the impression that this is a long, polite way of saying Steve committed suicide. The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. My…

So your credentials consist of personal anecdotes? Maybe it's time to start taking the issue more seriously. I think it's a serious issue deserving a more serious approach. For example, you might try reading literature with multiple different perspectives on the issue. Then try to figure out which ideas are right and why. (If you've already done this, forgive me, and please please inform me why Szasz is mistaken, I w…

What did Mz say that you are objecting to? Everything she said aligns with what I have read and heard about suicide.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#75

Post by aforrester »

ceejayoz wrote: post #44
xenophanes wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to discuss this seriously? If so, cite an actual study and say specifically what conclusion it reaches and specifically how that contradicts Szasz. You seem to be implying that Szasz and I hold our positions due to scientific ignorance, which is demonstrably false, and insulting. But maybe you didn't mean it that way.

http://www.szasz.com/manifesto.html > Mental illness is a metaphor (metaphorical disease). The word "disease" denotes a demonstrable biological process that affects the bodies of living organisms (plants, animals, and humans). The term "mental illness" refers to the undesirable thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of persons. Classifying thoughts, feelings, and behaviors as diseases is a logical and semantic error, like…

How do twin studies rule out "environmental" that is, non-genetic, causes. Twins look alike, so if there are ideas about how people who look alike ought to act alike we would be expect a correlation between genes and behaviour that has nothing to do with the content of the genes. Rather, that behaviour would be motivated by similar ideas.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#76

Post by badclient »

Mz wrote: post #73
badclient wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. 100%, although I wish we talked more about the challenge of determining that someone is suicidal. Here's what I wrestle with the most about this. I fear that if I "misdiagnose" someone as suicidal, that I might have now given them the idea that there is such a thing as su…

I am not shy. I tell my kids when I am suicidal. They still live with me and monitor my medical issues closely, so they know when I am being really, really wonky and not just bitching, if that makes sense. It helps that I have an especially close relationship to them. Also, they were raised by me, so are well educated in certain social paradigms.

Good for you! You make your kids' life so much easier You and your kids are both lucky!

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#78

Post by Mz »

pasbesoin wrote: post #60
Mz wrote: post #24

I get the impression that this is a long, polite way of saying Steve committed suicide. The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. My…

Mz, I continue to appreciate your honest and forthright approach to addressing issues such as this.

(hugs) old friend.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#79

Post by larrys »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #64

Thank you for starting a conversation about this. I know it's difficult, but it's important for the health and wellbeing of many other people struggling with the same problems that there are conversations like this one. I've struggled with depression too, though never been suicidal. Both of my parents made multiple suicide attempts last year. I hope you don't blame yourself for not being there for your brother. You c…

I just forked and came up with your site with this:

http://www.robsheldon.com/blog/depression-programming/

Just submitted it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228491

Very interesting piece (will put my thoughts in the comments of that).

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#80

Post by ghswa »

So sorry for your loss EMRo.

If I were anywhere nearby I'd have come along to the memorial service but the Atlantic is quite big... I hope the service goes well for you all.

Sadly the troll(s) in this thread are demonstrating the kind of prejudice that can make it difficult to have a serious discussion about the more immediate problems faced by people suffering from mental health problems.

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