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Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

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Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#221

Post by jvictor118 »

xtracto wrote: post #125
powertower wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous I feel perfectly safe. This whole entire issue about the government collecting meta-data is overblown IMO. And comparing it to tyranny and demanding rioting on the streets is literally self-destructive and utmost retarded. Maybe you need to compare it to a country like the Republic of Congo to get an idea of what's safe and what's not. But instead the majorit…

Good for you that you feel safe. An American colleague of mine (doing a 2nd PhD in Liverpool while I was doing my first/only one) told me he did not create accounts in Google/Yahoo/Hot mail not because of what could happen at this time, but at what the people with that information could do in the future. Right now, you feel perfectly safe in your comfortable chair, having all your information in Google, Facebook, and…

What exactly is "all this data" you're worried the government will see? What are you doing on Google and Facebook? I have this funny feeling the NSA doesn't care about your memes or JS plugins or whatever stupid crap you talk about on Facebook.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#222

Post by pinaceae »

_airh wrote: post #8

It is strange that the same country which cherishes its 'right to bear arms' on the grounds that it gives them a level of protection that the government is unable to provide is 'happy' to build the infrastructure which allows the same government to peek into their lives. On the one hand, we don't trust the government with the basics (physical security). On the other, we trust them with information we don't want our p…

a lot of the people that don't want to ban guns because of freedom do want to ban abortions.

you're looking for logic in this? buhaha.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#223

Post by [deleted] »

webXL wrote: post #213

> Bradley Manning, a soldier who released classified documents to WikiLeaks in 2010, has had a very different experience. Manning was held for three years without trial, including 11 months when he was held in de facto solitary confinement. During some of this period, he was forced to sleep naked at night, allegedly as a way to prevent him from committing suicide. The United Nations’ special rapporteur on torture has…

[deleted]

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#224

Post by [deleted] »

bmelton wrote: post #175
philwelch wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's somewhat fortunate that the actual military is, if anything, the least likely threat. Almost all of the veterans I've known would take the people's side. So if it came down to it, I could see large amounts of the military refusing orders or defecting. The main risk is probably paramilitaries like the ATF or your local SWAT team. One of the neat ways the Second Amendment is self-enforcing is that, if you sent tho…

I was going to say almost exactly that, only instead of the ATF (who have very little in the way of tactical response capabilities), the DHS is the biggest threat on the whole. Firstly, they are not bound by Posse Comitatus, but even moreso than that, they've been gearing up for awhile to have extremely tactical response capacity, including live-fire drills in and over major cities, purchase of armored urban vehicles…

[deleted]

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#225

Post by [deleted] »

davidcuddeback wrote: post #200
bmelton wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say almost exactly that, only instead of the ATF (who have very little in the way of tactical response capabilities), the DHS is the biggest threat on the whole. Firstly, they are not bound by Posse Comitatus, but even moreso than that, they've been gearing up for awhile to have extremely tactical response capacity, including live-fire drills in and over major cities, purchase of armored urban vehicles…

Can you cite a source for this information?

[deleted]

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#226

Post by madaxe »

powertower wrote: post #207
madaxe wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever been to Congo? Either one? It's fine. And this is coming from a white man who spent a week hitchhiking and walking around with zero security. I get hassled a lot more by LE in the US on trips there than anywhere else. Hell, I made it across eurasia with a grand total of one brush with the law, which went away with a bribe. I feel unsafe in the US. Not because of "the terrorists", but because of the jackbooted th…

> And this is coming from a white man who spent a week hitchhiking and walking around with zero security. Survivor bias. Your experience in Congo does not in any way discredit events of genocide, rape, catabolism, and all the other crazy things happening in those parts of the world. > but because of the jackbooted thugs that you call your government and her agencies. Someone asked to see your ID? For most people, liv…

> Survivor bias.

1) So if you went to disney and came home safe, that's survivor bias? 2) You don't have rape in the US? Way to go!

> Someone asked to see your ID?

1) Yes, and they didn't like it ("what state is this from?" "England" "but what state?") so I spent a night in a cell.

2) At the tender age of 13 while living in Chicago, I was threatened with spending the rest of my youth in juvie... for throwing a bit of gravel at a closed window to get someone's attention. This went as far as court.

> For most people

Ah, you're William Hague, right? Nothing to fear if you've nothing to hide?

You'd be there in 1938 shuffling into a cattle car believing that your benevolent government was sending you to a holiday camp.

Oh, and finally...

But instead the majority of people here sit in their comfortable chair in front of the computer fantasizing about how bad things are outside of their glorious america, having never left their home city, never mind state.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#227

Post by jvictor118 »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #210
jvictor118 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American living an America, I have to disagree with you. First of all, if you really didn't know the U.S. government and military had some creepy capabilities, you're not living on planet earth. Anyone with a brainstem and a basic interest in security and crypto can decipher this basic truth. Many even believe they can crack RSA and similar encryption schemes. Second of all, I don't begrudge any country their r…

>After all, it's not like Carrie from Homeland is chillin' at the CIA reading my texts with my girlfriend. They have neither time nor inclination for that. When you get accused of a federal crime and they use the handful of terabytes of all your data against you, what then? How can you possibly defend yourself against an entity with unlimited power and funding. Check out how much it costs to defend yourself from a fe…

See the comment below for example of a NYC terrorist plot foiled by PRISM.

And by the way -- why would I be accused of a FEDERAL CRIME? I didn't do anything wrong. If anything, _their collection of my data could be used to exonerate me_. Data is a two way street. It can both prove or disprove your guilt.

Be real. You and I both know that when it comes to national security, we do what we have to do. That doesn't mean we exploit those capabilities to put people in unfair situations. You let me know the first time someone gets picked up on a petty offense from PRISM-collected data. I doubt PRISM even collects data on offenses short of treason, terror plots, etc. Certainly none of that falls under the purview of the agencies involved.

By the way - you know other countries are engaged in the cyber war, right? Are you saying you don't want our government's protection against them actually _stealing_ your data and using it for god knows what purpose?

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#228

Post by snowwrestler »

Many people have sought asylum from the U.S. over the years. Does no one else remember the Vietnam draft-dodgers who departed to Canada? The communist sympathizers or agents who defected to USSR?

That said, I disagree with the notion that because the U.S. implementation of personal freedoms is not perfect, then we are as bad as any other country. Freedom is not measured binarily.

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#229

Post by pessimizer »

taktix wrote: post #45
josephagoss wrote: post #2

Americans might not realise this but we see the USA in the same light as China and Russia when it comes to freedoms. We might be wrong, but thats the perception myself and many other people from outside the USA see the current state of the situation. To think anyone would feel safe in the USA is ridiculous, the USA is one of the last places anyone should seek refuge in modern times. What scares me most is the United…

In China, the government is predictable and the streets are safe. In the US, the government is the enemy of the people and young school children are massacred while in public school for no reason. America, you have NOTHING to brag about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010...

Re: Has the US become the type of nation from which you have to seek asylum?

#230

Post by bmelton »

davidcuddeback wrote: post #200
bmelton wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say almost exactly that, only instead of the ATF (who have very little in the way of tactical response capabilities), the DHS is the biggest threat on the whole. Firstly, they are not bound by Posse Comitatus, but even moreso than that, they've been gearing up for awhile to have extremely tactical response capacity, including live-fire drills in and over major cities, purchase of armored urban vehicles…

Can you cite a source for this information?

Yes (this isn't meant to be sarcastic, but necessary because I had to move this post from where it was to where it is, and HN keeps marking it dead).

The DHS is not bound by Posse Comitatus[1].

The DHS has been buying massive amounts of ammo[2][3][4], and most recently, the House has voted to get justification on the quantity of hollow points it is purchasing[5].

It looks like the claim that they're buying large quantities of urban armored vehicles is wrong[4], though they do acknowledge that they possess them, though my Google-fu is on the fritz getting a source for that since all searches for "DHS armored vehicles" returns the wrong conspiracy theory.

The DHS was using 'no more hesitation' targets that look like citizens[6][7]. Of note, link 7 implies that the manufacturer took them off the site, but the manufacturer never claimed that they were no longer for sale, or that they were no longer being sold directly to DHS, even when asked that question directly. I have no direct knowledge either way.

The ammo they've been buying is hollow-point[2][3], and hollow point ammo is illegal per Geneva convention (is actually wrong, it's illegal based on the Hague convention, the point stands true either way... Hague just predates Geneva)[8]

I think that's all of it. Let me know if I missed anything.

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

[2] - http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/the-ammo-cons...

[3] - http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/04...

[4] - http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp

[5] - http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/303803-house-vot...

[6] - http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/high-tid...

[7] - http://reason.com/blog/2013/02/25/law-enforcement-targets-in...

[8] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet#Legality

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