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The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

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Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#221

Post by miki123211 »

ninalanyon wrote: post #208
RandomLensman wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU passports do.

How do they manage that? Do you have to visit a government office to get a passport? I only have a UK passport and it definitely does not include my finger prints as it was obtained by post.

Yes.

In fact, you have to do it twice; once to apply and once to receive it.

In Poland at least, the queues are often a few weeks long, and you have to book online in advance. If it's summer season and you need to travel soon, you usually have to go to some office in Buttfuckville at the other end of the country to get a reasonable date. Passport office hunting is an established practice for people who need one ASAP.

If you're a kid, both of your parents need to be present with you at the appointment at the same time, so they have to coordinate time off work. The fun begins if they're divorced and one lives in a different country.

At least, unlike in the UK/US, the process itself is pretty painless. I got mine just after I turned 18 (see above), and all I really needed to do was to go there, bring my ID, fill a single form and give them the fingerprints.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#222

Post by happymellon »

anvuong wrote: post #156
happymellon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never overstaying, always fingerprinted on arrival.

Your profile probably flagged some checks so they needed to get your fingerprints to actually confirm you are the one on the visa. I've never had to give fingerprints except for my first US visa.

UK, so on VISA Waiver programme not VISA.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#223

Post by joshuaissac »

iso1631 wrote: post #175
throw-the-towel wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the UK I think.

No, you land at Heathrow you don't go pass passport control if you change onto another international flight. You go through security and then into the departure lounge. Obviously if you land at Heathrow and fly out of Manchester then sure you have to immigrate, but not at the same airport. Same at Dubai and Qatar, Helsinki and Frankfurt, Singapore. and Seoul. Indeed last time I transited Seoul I stayed in a hotel air…

> land at Heathrow you don't go pass passport control if you change onto another international flight. You go through security and then into the departure lounge.

This requires a Direct Airside Transit visa, unless you are a citizen of one of the exempt countries or have a visa/residence permit from certain countries (US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Schengen). Applying for this visa involves going to the local visa processing centre, so it is not an online or on-arrival process, and takes around 3 weeks.

https://www.gov.uk/transit-visa/direct-airside-transit-visa

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#224

Post by miki123211 »

koverstreet wrote: post #134
rawgabbit wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called racial profiling.

U.S. border agents really are just worse. Much worse. (I can't say what racial profiling adds to that, I can only speak to my own experiences). I've been routinely grilled and extensively searched many times just crossing between the U.S. and Canada - the most hilarious instance being when I was crossing from Yukon Territory back to Alaska some 10 years ago. In Latin America, things are considerably more professional…

From what I've heard, Canada is actually a lot worse than the US.

I was traveling as part of a party of five (different travel dates, separate ETA filings, no apparent connection). One of us didn't get an ETA. Another got one just before the trip (and it was a 13-year-old child). The rest of us got ours immediately, but I was questioned at the border for 10+ minutes with no apparent reason, and then allowed in without a comment.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#225

Post by smallstepforman »

input_sh wrote: post #203
bilekas wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the EU you need to go through it both on every arrival and every departure. You absolutely don't. If you've done it once on your passport/ID you don't need to do it again. And infact there are fast track autonomous lanes that you can just scan your EU passport with biometric chip and fly through. (In theory, there's always idiots who don't realise they don't have it)

With the introduction of EES system (whose implementation was completed only a few months ago), the full data of non-EU citizens gets collected the first time we enter the EU and then we have to verify it every subsequent time. Not much of a hassle at airports due to the availability of self-service kiosks, somewhat of a hassle when crossing with a car, and infuriatingly annoying when using a mass transit option like…

I wish it was 20-30 minutes. Try 2-3 hours.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#226

Post by twothreeone »

speak_plainly wrote: post #54

This is a good thing for travellers. In border security there are generally two camps, one that uses data and intelligence to go after the worst, large-scale criminal operations and networks, and generally makes travelling easy for the average person, and the other is like traditional cops using traditional tactics… the kind that will miss the person smuggling a kilogram of cocaine in their suitcase but will go after…

> one that uses data and intelligence to go after the worst, large-scale criminal operations and networks

History shows that the main question with government and data collection is not "what X makes life easier for citizens" but "who collects/uses X and for what purpose". In the happy case, this may be all well and peachy. The case people rightfully worry about is not that case.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#227

Post by twothreeone »

kdheiwns wrote: post #66
cm2187 wrote: post #18

I fail to understand the distinction between an ESTA and a visa to be honest. You need to do the paperwork in advance, pay, provide all sort of personal information, and it can be denied, and if approved only for a limited amount of time. Given that both the EU and the UK have reciprocated, it is a fiction that there exists some visa free travel between these 3 zones. And the more hassle you create, the less tourism…

They're identical but countries pretend they're different. I got an evisa when I went to Indonesia and India. For each country, the process involved uploading a picture, filling in some basic details, and paying a fee. I was approved in 30 seconds for each. I'm pretty sure it was automatic. ESTA is supposed to be a lower hurdle than a visa. But from what I've heard, approvals take longer and quite a few people get re…

You don't need to visit an embassy for ESTA, for a Visa this in-person interview at the embassy is required.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#228

Post by input_sh »

smallstepforman wrote: post #225
input_sh wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the introduction of EES system (whose implementation was completed only a few months ago), the full data of non-EU citizens gets collected the first time we enter the EU and then we have to verify it every subsequent time. Not much of a hassle at airports due to the availability of self-service kiosks, somewhat of a hassle when crossing with a car, and infuriatingly annoying when using a mass transit option like…

I wish it was 20-30 minutes. Try 2-3 hours.

Definitely depends on the ratio of first time visitors since the introduction of the EES system (whose data needs collecting) vs returning visitors (whose data only needs verifying). I was going by my last experience, but I waited way longer than an hour in the past.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#229

Post by goatlover »

Telemakhos wrote: post #37
lukasbm wrote: post #11

The future is bleak.

The future is bleak if you are attempting to cross borders with a forged or stolen passport. Nobody else is adversely affected by this.

That's a failure of imagination on your part. I don't agree that governments should have this kind of information about us in order to cross borders.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#230

Post by DocTomoe »

maratc wrote: post #12

The point missing in the article is that, in order to enter the US, one needs to give the US Govt their photo and fingerprints ("biometric data") anyway. There are two options: visa-free with the biometric data passing on the wire (no hassle), or visa (a major hassle) and biometric data passing in the airport (a minor one). As a side note, the EU also collects photo and fingerprints from visitors now. Whereas in the…

With the major distinction being that a lot of Europeans have absolutely no intention of ever visiting the United States, a country with a history of sometimes more, sometimes less hostility and aggressive intelligence agencies.

If you want to visit a hellhole, go through the hassle. But don't hand out all of our data just because you want to do joyrides.

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