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Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

eshumarneedi.com

221–230 of 246 posts

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#221

I'm gunna say something crazy sounding that might be insensitive but is really obviously true to anyone that thinks about it for a few seconds. Meta throwing away a ton of really good talent is probably better for the world by a large degree. It is better if less very smart people work for them. We do not need more tracking algo's and unsafe uninterpretable AI (search 'meta coconut latent reasoning paper') made by a…

This is gonna sound evil but idc.

If I hire ex-Meta guys its for one reason only: squeeze them dry to repent their sins. Literally squeeze, squeeze... and squeeze and til they quit.

Personally I wish others would do it too. Working there is a choice.

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#222
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a common missconception that engineers spend most of their time producing code based on documented requirements in jira tickets. I'd believe that a complete automation of this aspect of our industry would only be enough to provide a 10-20% boost in productivity. Still impressive, but within the range of "Our team improved our CI, build times, development process etc."

Exactly this. Grinding away inside various places I've worked for the last 10 years I longed for intense chunks of actually writing code. It was actually a rare treat to get something large and coherent enough to involve code production. Most times were spent juggling paperwork, bouncing back and forth on code reviews, negotiating ambiguous requirements, and attending pointless meetings. Granted... the agentic tools…

  > Most times were spent juggling paperwork, bouncing back and forth on code reviews, negotiating ambiguous requirements, and attending pointless meetings.

you are only as fast as your slowest part. it seems so many execs and managers are clueless about things people discovered decades ago (deming, goldratt, demarco et al)

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#223
post #48

This is another piece of evidence against the "Zuckerberg Exceptionalism" theory. I've argued before that he is neither a great leader nor a particularly intelligent person outside some alleged Math talent. He was, at best, a competent entrepreneur and very hard worker who was in the right place at the right time. Meta's strategy is the kind of thing many/most people here could have come up with: * "We have lots of u…

math talent is over-rated.

I know many math talented guys - olympiad level. What are they doing 30 yrs on? nothing special.

The unfortunate truth for many is (and the lie they got told) - none of that stuff has any relevance to large contributions in the economy.

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#224
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a common missconception that engineers spend most of their time producing code based on documented requirements in jira tickets. I'd believe that a complete automation of this aspect of our industry would only be enough to provide a 10-20% boost in productivity. Still impressive, but within the range of "Our team improved our CI, build times, development process etc."

This is a bit like going back in time to the beginning of the industrial revolution and estimating the impact of a mechanisation based on comparing the speed of early mechanical looms vs. a skilled human. It takes years or decades for the automation of an artisan process to shake out, because it involves rethinking how everything around the now-automated process happens, and because the benefits involve the automatio…

This is nonsense.

Every new technology we discover from here on out has a compressed lifecycle.

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#225
post #158

All of these tech companies have fallen into the Wall Street trap and it will be their ultimate undoing. Meta probably more than most. I feel like a broken record but Google cracked this particular nut in the 2000s by creating an environment where people could flourish who would otherwise suffer in Corporate America. Google studied this and found in the 2010s that psychological safety was the number one factor in tea…

  > Corporate America typically has what's called an "up or out" mentality. Jack Welch dogmatic thinking rules here.
and it has spread all over the world, damaging quality and trustworthiness everywhere it spreads

  > Notice how it's leadership errors that are massively disruptive to people's lives but they suffer none of the consequences when they're responsible?
i think this is what people nowadays call "freedom and meritocracy" (only slightly sarcastic here)

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#226
Missing in here is the nuance that Meta was absolutely not too late to the first AI boom with Llama, and at one point were the clear leaders of the OSS alternative LLM space. But they blew it up themselves with the disastrous Llama 4 release which included, amongst immense self-imposed delays, lies on benchmarks. No wonder nobody wants to use their tech.

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#227
This article is classic 20/20 hindsight that you always see when a business decision doesn't pan out. From the author:

> The self-created tragedy of Meta is that the company is loath to invent new products. Instead, Meta’s management more or less relies on “vibes” to govern its decisions, and those vibes are often either wrong or far too late. The most pertinent example of the former is the ill-fated metaverse, which was developed solely on the (unbelievable) whim that the pandemic would last forever — or at least far longer than it actually did — and people would become accustomed to replacing in-person interaction with virtual reality. It was precisely at this moment, roughly around mid-2020, that Meta (then Facebook) disintegrated from a social media company into a Ship of Theseus that still technically operated its core social platforms but fundamentally was distracted by a red herring. Vibes-based management.

This is bullshit. All businesses need to take calculated risks, which sometimes don't pan out. The reason Zuck went full bore into VR/AR is because he desperately understood (correctly, IMO) that not owning a major computing platform was a huge risk. Microsoft had Windows on the desktop, Apple and Google had iOS and Android on mobile. When iOS restricted advertiser tracking (requiring opt in, which nearly every same person thought was a good thing) it cost Facebook a ton of money. So Zuckerberg made a big bet that VR/AR would be the next big computing platform.

Except the bet flopped. Turned out very few people want a big pair of goggles strapped to their face all day. But Facebook wasn't alone in making a bad bet - Apple spent billions on Vision Pro, and that's basically dead.

The problem isn't that Facebook made a big bet that flopped, and that alone isn't "vibes management". The problem is that since Zuck has majority voting power, basically all decisions come down to him and nothing is tempered by the expectations/desires of others, so you get this "pendulum" management as I call it. Sometimes you have these visionary leaders and it works out, but a lot of times it crashes over time. Musk runs his companies largely the same way, and while obviously it has worked out well for his companies and shareholders, it's widely known now that employees at his companies see a primary task as "managing Musk". Tesla's self-driving capabilities are far behind Waymo despite having a lot more driving data, and a big issue is Musk's insistance on cameras only. I've seen comments here on HN that any self-respecting AI leader would never work for X AI because the marching orders are basically "grok has to say what Musk wants".

Having an "emperor CEO" means the company can move quickly, but that goes for both beneficial and detrimental directions.

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory of this based mostly in time working in Meta's RL org on VR and Wearables (disclosure).... There's a fundamental comms issue, I think, where you can only broadly communicate the least common denominator of what every involved person will understand. The "imperative decrees lacking nuance." This is doubly hard if the thing is New, so it isn't broadly understood by default in the collective professions…

Technically I think there IS another org struct that helps, but it's impractical for a number of Big Corp reasons. A broad studio-like portfolio, where you mostly stay hands-off and willing to burn a ton of money in directions that won't work, and accept that they are out of your control. Stochastically let the best 10% of isolated plays rise on their own while 90% fail. I think the VC model tends to do this relative…

Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

Re: Zuckerberg 'Admits' Meta's Layoffs Were Ineffective

#229
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read “The Gervais Principle” https://ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-t... I think it explains everything, most companies are optimizing for “confused” - a class within the framework of people who work hard for no reason. Not saying it’s the best but it’s certainly a way to do it, and probably becomes inevitable once the company is big enough. I also think it closely parallels the practice of compan…

This is commonly posted here, and is a hilarious read. it's also about as valid a Freud or Horoscopes. Maybe some grains of truth, sure, but it's a view of the world filtered through old management textbooks then filtered through a comic and then filtered through the Office. It's Dilbert meets Simulation vs. Simulacra.

Can you talk more about Dilbert + Simulacra?
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