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Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

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Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#221

Post by steve_adams_86 »

krupan wrote: post #212

Some interesting discussion here about Bill Watterson and Jim Davis and it makes me wonder about this word, "integrity," that's being used. In my mind, integrity is to be honest and to do what you promise to do (unless we are talking about physical structures, which we aren't here, are we?). When an artist "sells out" is that really showing a lack of integrity? I guess it depends on what promises they made to... them…

I agree. Davis intended to do what he did all along.

If Watterson deviated and sold the merchandise he would have lacked integrity, sure. But someone like Davis is acting according to their ideals and intentions and so on; there is a lot of integrity present in the matter.

People use it to mean “they did something I disagree with” which doesn’t inherently overlap with integrity concerns.

I suppose you could argue that art isn’t meant to be commercialized in such a way, and so Davis lacked integrity to the discipline and trade. Some comic artists might say his approach takes away from comic artistry and lacks integrity in that manner. I’m not sure if that’s true or reasonable to say at all. Someone can make a comic for any reason they want as far as I’m concerned.

I don’t know what Davis is like personally, but from the outside and looking only at Garfield, it doesn’t appear that he lacked integrity.

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#222

Post by bena »

reddalo wrote: post #171
bena wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. He's not dead. He could have gone into webcomics if he had wanted.

TIL that Bill Watterson is still alive.

I think it's because he retired relatively early. He was 37 when he ended Calvin and Hobbes. And he's always been relatively private.

He published a book not too long ago.

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#223

Post by toss1 »

randallsquared wrote: post #135
toss1 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>This directly contradicts the first statement, does it not? It does not. The former was threats in the before times, the latter was the lackluster result after the dust had settled.

The contrast between "Calvin and Hobbes was threatened with widespread cancellation." and "only fifteen of the 1,800 papers running Watterson’s strip threatened" is quite stark.

>>quite stark

Yes it is.

If you are running a paper and are already under stress and trying to streamline operations and now some cartoonist demands you use a format that requires significant extra work, you'd probably complain too, even threaten to drop that content. Threats are free, and they might work, especially if a lot of papers made similar complaints and threats.

But, when it came right down to the actual decision, knowing how many readers really love that particular artwork, and would even cancel their subscriptions if it were absent from your paper, and the math told you those losses would exceed the costs you were trying to avoid, so you'd find the papers collectively lost the conflict, and you'd keep it, do the extra work, and keep the subscribers.

Thinking about it for a minute, it seems unsurprising the difference between the initial cost-free bluster vs the final whimper of a handful of costly cancellations would be quite stark?

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#224

Post by chrisgd »

I think about Bluey a lot in these situations. Fantastic show but because of the contract the Australian entity has sold licensing for everything. I wish they didn’t do sugary foods and a few other items. But it would be hard to turn down generational wealth

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#226

Post by BrokenCogs »

megaloblasto wrote: post #165
dhosek wrote: post #140

I model my parenting style on Calvin’s dad. I actually had almost the identical conversation with my kids about why old pictures are in black and white. When they were in fourth grade my daughter came home from school angry at me about having let her and her brother believe for four years that the world used to be in black and white. They haven’t brought up bridges and weight limits yet so I can only assume they stil…

[flagged]

It's clear from the comics that Calvin's dad is just having a bit of fun with his son by telling him funny lies about how the world works. It's not about tricking kids, it rather about playing a mostly harmless prank on them.

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#227

Post by NoSalt »

I, like so many others, LOVE Calvin and Hobbes! I started loving it as a kid, a boy against "the establishment" (a.k.a., parents and school). Today, I am loving it as a parent with a little Calvin of my own running around the house. The wife and I are constantly laughing at how much our son reminds us of Calvin. We try to encourage his imagination as much as we can, and hope it never leaves him. It is absolutely amazing how this one comic can have such an effect on my during two completely different times of my life.

Mr. Bill Watterson ... thank you!

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#228

Post by krupan »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #221
krupan wrote: post #212

Some interesting discussion here about Bill Watterson and Jim Davis and it makes me wonder about this word, "integrity," that's being used. In my mind, integrity is to be honest and to do what you promise to do (unless we are talking about physical structures, which we aren't here, are we?). When an artist "sells out" is that really showing a lack of integrity? I guess it depends on what promises they made to... them…

I agree. Davis intended to do what he did all along. If Watterson deviated and sold the merchandise he would have lacked integrity, sure. But someone like Davis is acting according to their ideals and intentions and so on; there is a lot of integrity present in the matter. People use it to mean “they did something I disagree with” which doesn’t inherently overlap with integrity concerns. I suppose you could argue tha…

I think I'm taking it a step further even and asking that if Watterson decided that he would never merchandise Calvin and Hobbes and then 10 years later saw things differently and changed his mind, would that be an integrity violation? I don't think so.

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#229

Post by PebblesRox »

WillAdams wrote: post #70
Tyr42 wrote: post #11

Man, I always wonder what would have happened if Bill Watterson had been around for the era of webcomics. Much more creative freedom, and no editor or syndicate to tell you how to layout your panels. Would he have loved it? Or would he have hated it? He certainly wouldn't have wanted to build a website for it.

I think he would have enjoyed the creative freedom, run with it, and maybe even have managed to make some interesting new expression, say something along the lines of: https://xkcd.com/1190/ (which won a well-deserved Hugo if memory serves) I've been on something of a webcomic kick for a while now, and while I'd love to shill for _Girl Genius_ https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104 (oops, guess I ju…

Thank you for the link to 1/0 — it had a link to Absurd Notions that I had been searching for to read again but couldn’t remember the name of!

Re: Calvin and Hobbes and the price of integrity

#230

Post by steve_adams_86 »

krupan wrote: post #228
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Davis intended to do what he did all along. If Watterson deviated and sold the merchandise he would have lacked integrity, sure. But someone like Davis is acting according to their ideals and intentions and so on; there is a lot of integrity present in the matter. People use it to mean “they did something I disagree with” which doesn’t inherently overlap with integrity concerns. I suppose you could argue tha…

I think I'm taking it a step further even and asking that if Watterson decided that he would never merchandise Calvin and Hobbes and then 10 years later saw things differently and changed his mind, would that be an integrity violation? I don't think so.

No, arguably not. People change their minds over time. We learn things, change, our environment changes. I'm not who I was 10 years ago, but not for a lack of integrity.
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