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The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

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Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#221

Post by pandaman »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #103
lithocarpus wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things can be harmful at once. I am curious which is worse in terms of contribution to modern chronic metabolic disease. In the case of ultra-processed/refined oils though, there is an argument to be made that these are novel foods that humans never ate until very recently. There aren't any old people who have been eating them their whole lives in the quantities we do now. This is probably true for industrially r…

Really? I don't know exactly how long people have been eating oil from olive, flax seed, sesame, coconut or palm nut, but I believe not under 6000–7000 years. But yeah, not the stuff we eat today.

When people are talking about seed oils they rarely mean olive oil, usually it's "canola oil" (considering what "canola" stands for it's insulting not just to one's digestive system but intellect too).

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#222

Post by array_key_first »

seec wrote: post #216
array_key_first wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but that should probably be a red flag. I mean, we put sugar in everything because it makes everything taste awesome and, yeah. There's nothing wrong with using beef tallow or bacon fat in your cooking occasionally. I use bacon fat sometimes. But of course consuming saturated fat in excess is not good for you in the long run, so do it in moderation.

Yeah, as you say, the key point is moderation, always. I find it extremely unlikely that evolution got us to like foods that are supposedly that bad for us. Our palate is actually a tool for evaluation of what is consumable and has the nutrients we need. If you look at children not corrupted by ideologies, it will become extremely obvious that they naturally crave this stuff without any prompting. The problem just co…

I agree. Fat, salt, and sugar taste good because they are, in a sense, good for us. For the entire history of humanity, the more of that you can eat, the better. This stopped being true less than 100 years ago.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#223

Post by eudamoniac »

array_key_first wrote: post #201
leereeves wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Replacing "seed oils" with hamburgers and french fries fried in tallow won't magically help your health. If anything, you would die quicker from the huge amount of saturated fat you're now intaking. I'd like to see your evidence for the first claim. The second claim is not as well supported as you might think. A recent Cochrane review published by The American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) rated "Reduction in…

No, we know that eating less saturated fat and replacing it with unsaturated fat, such as those found in seed oils, can reduce your risk of CVD as much as statins. https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/10/21/advisory-replacing-... We know, for sure, that eating less saturated fat reduces your markers that put you at risk of cardiovascular disease. Your study points that out. The problem with assessing cardiovascular mor…

I've seen emerging evidence that saturated fat and LDL is not even causative, and that it's perhaps triglycerides that are instead relevant

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#224

Post by eudamoniac »

drukenemo wrote: post #214

The advice that surfaces here when a healthy-eating article is posted always leave me surprised. “Don’t eat added sugars, or only very rarely”. Have you looked around and seen the infinite amount of delicious food available literally everywhere? Sure, make an effort to reduce those, but to me cutting out those is akin to recommending someone to be celibate or not to ever commit a sin. Those ultra virtuous (and maybe…

The thing is, once you have a healthy diet, those sickly sweet things don't taste very delicious anymore. Like, on the rare occasion I have a soda now, it literally tastes like an extremely sweet syrup that I cannot easily drink much of. You kind of sound like a porn addict glorifying extreme BDSM porn while denigrating those boring people who just have sex with their wives. What you have is an acquired taste, one that can also be disacquired without much loss.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#225

Post by eudamoniac »

cogogo wrote: post #128

I was always under the impression that canola oil was mildly poisonous. It is sort of true in that it has euric acid but far below levels that can hurt you. I think I was confusing things with an event where industrial rapeseed oil in spain was sold as olive oil in the 80s and many people were poisoned. Also, TIL that canola is a portmandeu of canada and oil. All the above reference here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

Erucic acid being bad is a myth actually, look it up. Pretty much the entirety of China cooks with normal rapeseed oil with the high acid levels and they're just fine.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#226

Post by lithocarpus »

jmye wrote: post #217
leereeves wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As evidence for mortality related to saturated fat, that AHA statement cites only three sources. First, in the Oslo Diet-Heart Study, "there were fewer cardiovascular deaths in the experimental group by 27% (P=0.09)", a non-significant result. Second, it cites the reduction in CHD deaths in Finland between 1972 and 1992, attributing 50% of the reduction to cholesterol levels. But similar reductions occurred in many n…

What’s your background to describe this evidence as anything at all? Significant nutrition background? I’m not clear why you think you have standing to make any claims whatsoever, here, especially given the utter paucity of evidence you have cited. This is typical Internet Nutrition Bullshit, just packaged in vaguely smart sounding words.

It doesn't require credentials to identify obvious ways in which a given study or paper doesn't show the thing it is being claimed to show.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#227

Post by eudamoniac »

lithocarpus wrote: post #154
analog31 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep reading about "inflammation" and think about things like swollen joints, bruises, etc. It must mean something else. What would I notice in my body if the oils that I consume are causing severe inflammation?

There are tons of possible symptoms because systemic inflammation including from dietary causes basically damages the entire body. But here's a list of some common symptoms from one source: persistent pain, chronic fatigue or insomnia, joint stiffness, skin problems, elevated blood markers (such as C-reactive protein), gastrointestinal issues (constipation, diarrhoea, acid reflux), depression, anxiety and mood disord…

So basically every possible psychosomatic and unverifiable symptom, plus a bunch that can have infinity different causes, and no clinical test for this "inflammation". Curious!

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#228

Post by Ferret7446 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #173
dukeyukey wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

They didn't say "added sugar" they just said sugar. If you want to avoid sugar, you have to realize that fruit does contain sugar (fructose is the culprit here) and it isn't always healthy. If you think of the specialty oranges like cuties and halos, they are loaded with sugar, that's why they taste so good. Apples and bananas still won't help you lose weight. Tomatoes have much less sugar and could actually be helpf…

Fruit are nature's dessert. We should treat many fruits like how society generally thinks (but not does) toward chocolate and cake.

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#229

Post by 0xDEFACED »

kstrauser wrote: post #111
0xDEFACED wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree with the premise of the article. i also wish the author had cared enough about such an important topic to actually write about it themselves. doing otherwise disrespects the reader

That’s begging the question by assuming it was wasn’t written by themselves.

in this particular case it feels like a very safe assumption

Re: The seed oil panic is hurting my cardiac patients

#230

Post by ikidd »

newdee wrote: post #172
dukeyukey wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Added sugar? I really don't think giving up all fruits and vegetables is a good idea.

The sugar you get from fruit is also accompanied by fiber, water and other nutrients. Also harder to overeat and generally gets released into the bloodstream more slowly. I think the argument here is to eat less (highly) processed food in favour of whole foods.

I've known people that think switching to fruit juice from sugar sodas was going to fix them; very much not. Doesn't matter where you get the sugar, sugar is sugar and is not good for you or your arteries or weight loss.
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